According to The Guardian, here's what we knew last night:
• The BNP had 11,560 members as of April this year, including one peer.There have been rumours spinning out of the ether of an undercover BNP member sitting in the House of Lords. It is alleged Edwin Bramall is that peer. Readers might be interested to learn in 2006 Bramall was involved in a punch up with Greville Janner over reported anti-Israel remarks in the House.
• The party appears to have benefited from a surge in female recruits – one in eight party members are now women.
• The highest concentrations of members are in Leicestershire, Lancashire, Derbyshire and Lincolnshire
Naturally the fat fuhrer, Nick Griffin is furious about the leak. "Those who are responsible for the latest attack will be tracked down and exposed" he thundered, while predicting the BNP would attract "waves of support" from sympathetic people. It's more likely there will be waves of revulsion from his own membership. Even the most knuckle-headed member must be asking how this leak could have happened again.
Some demographics from the new list to follow.
10:18 edit: 'Morus' points out in the comments below:
"Just to say we have effectively confirmed that it is not Edwin Baron Bramall who is a member. He is a respectable working peer, Field Marshall, and Knight of the Garter.
The BNP member is a man who styles himself "Lord Brian Bramhall" (notice different spelling).
The BNP members data matches that spelling of "Lord Bramhall" to a postcode. When you search on that postcode, you get this chap's genealogy website.
A version of that website database is here
Lines 37 & 38 confirm that the BNP member is this man, not the noble Baron.
If you could amend the post, that would be grand. We're trying to crush the rumour before it defames Baron Bramall."
10:35 edit: Unfortunately I haven't had the time to go through all the members' names and details. Still, the first 222 names on the list are a large enough sample likely to possess properties that are statistically significant. Of this group:
53 are described as 'activists'.
Only 39 are women.
Just seven appear to be under the age of 25.
Four live overseas (curiously, the member domiciled in the Philippines is described as an 'activist').
Three are ex-forces (excluding the Territorial army officer cadet). Interestingly there appears to be an active serviceman in the "intelligence corps".
12 of this sample live in Scotland, five in Wales and two in Northern Ireland.
Apparently the "peer" thing is mistaken identity - such is the wisdom of twitter at current time anyway.
ReplyDeleteHi Phil,
ReplyDeleteJust to say we have effectively confirmed that it is not Edwin Baron Bramall who is a member. He is a respectable working peer, Field Marshall, and Knight of the Garter.
The BNP member is a man who styles himself "Lord Brian Bramhall" (notice different spelling.
The BNP members data matches that spelling of "Lord Bramhall" to a postcode. When you search on that postcode, you get this chap's genealogy website.
A version of that website database is here: http://www.bramhall.talktalk.net/bramhall.ged
Lines 37 & 38 confirm that the BNP member is this man, not the noble Baron.
If you could amend the post, that would be grand. We're trying to crush the rumour before it defames Baron Bramall.
Cheers
Morus
In one sense, it's useful to know how many people view themselves as members of the BNP, but I really worry about the people who aren't members but vote for them...
ReplyDeleteBarmmal was in my Regiment, and far from being BNP material, he is from a Socialist family- even if the champagne type, his Brother was a former Labour head of Education in London-
ReplyDeleteFunny how the East Midlands is a hotbed of bigotry, I can understand in Lincolnshire as they are all inbreds with crab claw hands and one eye...
ReplyDeleteI am trying to find the Sentinel on the BNP members list...
"...I can understand in Lincolnshire as they are all inbreds with crab claw hands and one eye..."
ReplyDeleteEasy to spot so!
I doubt he'll be on there, Daniel. We all know he's a Walter Mitty fantasist with a moronic twist. I'd be very surprised if he was an actual member.
ReplyDeleteBeat me to it again Phil.
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately, given what happened last time, I don't think this leak will have any negative consequences for the BNP other than short term embarrassment and can easily be sold to the membership as yet another example of persecution from the Labour Party.
I think we need to treat this list with caution. The last time this was released there were 'members' on there who had never been supporters or members of the BNP.
ReplyDeleteIts all a reflection of the fact that the ruling class have decided to put the BNP back in their box. The bosses only need fascists when their back is up against the wall. It clearly isn't.
ReplyDeleteThe bosses needed and still need immigration, because to be competitive Britain needs low paid, low status work to be done, which it can't get domestic workers to do at sufficiently low wages to make profits. As with everything udner Capitalism there was a contradiction in that, because it led to social tensions, particularly as papers like the Daily Mail, which reflect the views of backward petit-bourgeois elements rather than the bouregoisie itself, whipped up hostility. Its likely they too will be pulled up by the bourgeoisie and its state.
Its on the back of that that the BNP, whose real success should not be overstated, have grown. Now the bosses and their State have dcided to act to reign them in. The EDL probably reflects dissatisfaction within the BNP at the suits not boots turn, but its also likely to be the result of spooks and agents acting to provoke dissent.
Today not only have the top military brass come out strongly against the BNP's use of imagery - though given the role of the Spitfire in keeping Britain's Colonial slaves imprisoned, and Churchill's rabid anti-semitism, rather hypocritically - but Rob Mcnab and Simon Weston are part of a group actively opposing the BNP in the military, apparently organised by some leading Tories.
The appearance of the BNP on "Question Time" is probably part of this, in ordert to flush them out, put them on the spot, and begin to rip apart the inconsistencies of their arguments. Of course, the bosses and their Tory agents cannot do this consistently themselves, nor can Jack Straw. The Left should demand the right to go on Question Time, and present a real political alternative.
I've got to take issue with Arthur's almost conspiratorial account of the BNP's success above, particularly this:
ReplyDeleteNow the bosses and their State have dcided to act to reign them in
The release of this list doesn't demonstrate some new strategy by the state to deal with the BNP, having been happy to let them grow beforehand.
In fact, the leak of this latest membership is the latest in a long line of machinations the BNP has been subject to, such as 'The Secret Agent' BBC documentary and the release of last years membership list, not a recent development. It's been going on for years.
That said, the fact they keep falling for them says something about their general competence.
the BNP, whose real success should not be overstated
How can it be over stated? They've gone from a party with a similar social status to Ian Huntlley to one with about 50 councillors, 2 MEP's and 10,000 members in under a decade.
The EDL probably reflects dissatisfaction within the BNP at the suits not boots turn
The BNP took the turn away from street confrontation in April 1994. If the recent appearance of the EDL is a reaction to this, it's a bit of a delayed one don't you think?
You make a good point about the ruling class putting the BNP 'back in their box.' They don't need them.....yet and are worried that the BNP could make big advances in the coming General Election and split the Right vote.
ReplyDeleteHowever, here's the problem for the ruling class: they can't switch the BNP on/off like a tap. Sometimes the ideology is out-of-step with the infastructure.
I think ruling classes prefer fash to the left, and perhaps they have played the BNP up as a kind of lightning rod during the economic downturn. But they probably don't want the BNP to have actual power, and the crisis is not such as to make the BNP indispensible to them.
ReplyDeleteDuncan,
ReplyDeleteI think you misunderstood what I was saying. I was not suggesting some conspiracy by the ruling class to enable the BNP to develop, that they have now reversed. On the contrary, I was saying that policies pursued by the ruling class - encouraging immigration to provide the needed cheap labour - had unwanted consequences - the immigration led to social tensions.
The BNP grew not because the ruling class wanted it to grow, but because the condiitons created by the policis of the ruling class facilitated that growth. The bosses would tolderate the BNP's growth within that up to a point. The point has now been surpassed.
The BNP have not had that great a success. Their vote in a Genreal Election would still not be much more than 1%. The Left has done better than that in the past. In the 1980's there were far more Councillors like myself who were membes of revolutionary organisations, and who made no secret of their politics. Militant controlled Liverpool City Council and so on, and had several MP's, something the BNP are unlikely to achieve. During that period the Militant had around 10,000 members the SWP possibly slightly more, and with several thousand more in the various other revolutionary groups. That growth had come about in not much more than ten years too.
It took some time for internal opposition in the provos turn to electoralism to surface as external opposition too. Its only when the real contradictions - such as the problem they face in having to change their Constitution etc - manifest themselves, and are no doubt seen by some as Griffin and co being incorporated and bought off by the Establishment via their MEP salaries and so on, that these kinds of splits break out. But, as i said, encouraged by the spooks and state agents no doubt too. In the 1970's and 80's the Labour Movement and Left was riddledd with state agents, around 250 union leaders on Special Branch's books alone, as the BNP are their main target at the moment they will no doubt have at least the same kind of presence. All the stuff happening at the moment, and the Panorama programme last night are not a coincidence.
I agree that given present conditions the BNP should be doing much better. It's a measure of their general incompetence that they have comparatively little to show for it - and probably a measure of the sustained opposition they face from everyone else.
ReplyDeleteI'd be interested to hear what comrades thought about the morality of the leak (seeing as no one seems to have touched on this). Does this 11,000-strong collection of sad sacks, racists and losers forfeit their right to privacy and other legal protections when they join a fascist organisation?
As to morality, i dont think this is something to worry about. I never say antifascism as coming from a moral high ground in any event
ReplyDeleteThe leak is from, I think one of two ex employees- who are not part of the Graham/Single mob who split in 2007
As far as i am concerned, if they lose their jobs and career over this, great. Its a good deterrent to prevent the fainthearted from joining them
I think it's difficult to discuss the morality of releasing the data without discussing what the data is.
ReplyDeleteDo we care what happens to BNP members? That's one question but the question we have here is do we find it acceptable to expose thousands of people as BNP members even though a number of them are not members and never have been.
Although this is, I think, the minority of those on the list the very fact that thousands of these people are marked down as being lapsed members or those who have 'shown interest' in the party means that people (including the anti-fascists on this list) have been victims of abuse and intimidation for being something they are not.
It may be embarrassing and not useful for the BNP, it's also caused a number of people who've never been fascists some extremely unpleasant situations.
I think we probably should care about that. Take ex-socialist alliance member Nick Stone in Lewisham. Because of his firm anti-racism at work his workmates, as a 'joke', added him to the BNP supporters list.
Since the release of the first list, without going into detail, life has not always been much fun for him. Where the publication of the list has resulted in anti-fascists being abused and victimised then, frankly, it's difficult to find this a morally worthwhile act.
How come our resident blogger has not leapt to the defence of the good county of Lincolnshire and its denizens? There may be one or two "crab-claw handed, one-eyed inbreds" but they are certainly the minority.
ReplyDeleteThe vast majority of the county's population opposes the BNP. Our SP branch with others in the trade union movement have tirelessly campaigned against racism and fascism in Lincolnshire in the last 5 years.
For example, we've organised three public demonstrations, one anti-racist gig, given out thousands of leaflets, had one stall attacked, had one member intimidated in her flat, had one member put on a hit-list, received threatening phone calls, not to mention the countless stalls we organised in direct confrontation with the fascists who were giving out their "immigrants are responsible for local sexual assaults" leaflets. An apology, perhaps? Twat.
"I'd be interested to hear what comrades thought about the morality of the leak (seeing as no one seems to have touched on this)"
ReplyDeleteWhat Jim said.
I am glad it was leaked and hope it will increase the stigma attached to BNP membership.
We shouldn't want the BNP or other neo-fascists to be treated as if they are normal, they are not.
I let Daniel's comment through in the hope someone would take him up on anti-fascism in Lancs, Nick. I'm glad you did :)
ReplyDeletePhil:
ReplyDeleteYou let the comment through because you know I'm right re: Lincolnshire, the county that God forgot along with Shropshire and that I'm an East Midlands gent, so can say what I want about my region.
Hello Nick!
Thanks for calling me a twat you great big ballbag! I much appreciate the long list of facts, esp: "The vast majority of the county's population opposes the BNP. Our SP branch with others in the trade union movement have tirelessly campaigned against racism and fascism in Lincolnshire in the last 5 years."
Well, it clearly isn't working, have you been to North Lincs, have you been to Spalding? Have you been to Sleaford? And have you fucking been to Boston for Godsake?
You see, before you go calling people names you need to know that I've done a lot of work with refugees and asylum seekers and economic migrants in those places and Ive seen the damage of racists at first hand, so by all means keep doing your work but pretending Lincolnshire isn't a shithole of bigotry won't help those that need it.
I think the BNP agenda is absolutely valid. Can't wait to see what happens at the next election. I am not racist as such but just believe Britain should be for the British and not for any foreigners en masse whether Asian, black, European or whatever. They alone have given themselves the reputation they deserve with their lawlessness and disregard for life and property. Many people speak these views in private as to reveal oneself at the present time would not be wise. The hidden supporters are out there.
ReplyDeleteYou keep deluding yourself, anonymous. The mass revulsion that exists against the BNP is hardly orchestrated: it is very real. And with good reason. Not only is the BNP a spiteful, hateful organisation, but its arguments are a total pack of lies. That you can trot them out unthinkingly despite not being racist "as such" says more about your hate and fear of people different to you than anything else. Pathetic really.
ReplyDeleteWell said Phil with regards to the terrible bile spouted by the coward racist.
ReplyDeleteWhich included this bit of nonsesne: "I am not racist as such but just believe Britain should be for the British" this alone is so backward, so unworkable, so utterly couched in bigotry.
As if somehow British people don't commit crime, that somehow everything is someone else's fault. What cowardly thoughts!
"Many people speak these views in private as to reveal oneself at the present time would not be wise."
Because you would be wisely outed as a racist idiot, with little deductive powers of reasoning and little intelligence.
Vile stuff.
Getting a coherent, reasoned argument out of a racist is impossible. on the occasions we meet hardened BNP supporters when we do our stalls all they can do is hurl abuse ... from a safe distance. They are total cowards and know their politics do not stand up to rational scrutiny.
ReplyDeleteBut anyway Daniel, I forgot to ask which part of the East Midlands are you from?
There's a strange symmetry between where I'm from and sunny old Stoke. Back there I lived near the "world famous" Denby pottery, and the pits were once an economic power in the land. I move to Stoke, a place once dominated by the pits and pots.
And where I did my A-Levels (Heanor) was then (and now) a pocket of BNP activity. And the same is true of Stoke.
Spooky shit.
Nottingham born and raised but then moved to London some 5 years ago.
ReplyDelete