tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post7987622906710222681..comments2024-03-29T07:14:55.029+00:00Comments on All That Is Solid ...: The Strange Return of the Political PartyPhilhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06298147857234479278noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-54703570457540007282015-05-29T19:10:03.872+01:002015-05-29T19:10:03.872+01:00Labour deludes itself if it believes that the SNP ...Labour deludes itself if it believes that the SNP surge and alleged reaction to it was the reason it failed to win Tory seats in England. It was merely an illustration of the regrettable lack of trust floating voters had in Milliband. Saying that Better Together was a good idea because No won is missing the point. The Yes campaign narrowed the gap considerably and Ed Balls lining up with Osborne to say No on currency was a key example of Labour's miscalculation. Scottish Labour MPs probably thought it was a good idea at the time...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-68356923372872885612015-05-28T12:49:00.791+01:002015-05-28T12:49:00.791+01:00Precisely Ken, but the myth is stronger than the r...Precisely Ken, but the myth is stronger than the reality - Labour made the "mistake" of treating the voters like adults, or perhaps not. After all, the referendum was won. <br /><br />The ironic thing is that if it had gone the other way, Scotland would be in the shit now with the collapse of the oil price. The voters called it right, or half-right: the want their cake and to eat it. There's nothing wrong with this, but it handed the election to the Tory party, as Labour, again, warned. <br /><br />Scotland could indeed be looking at independence, and without the oil or the currency, be much the worse off for it - except that my hunch is that if it comes to it, providing the UK stays in EU, they will not. The trouble is that this makes them seem a wholly unattractive lot, which may not trouble them at the moment as they make fools of themselves on the opposition benches, but will store up trouble in the long run as English resentment gradually sees the tap turned off. Speedynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-71734460037052387582015-05-28T07:26:42.056+01:002015-05-28T07:26:42.056+01:00Anonymous - 'never be allowed to use their own...Anonymous - 'never be allowed to use their own £ sterling' is an emotive way of saying that if Scotland were to leave the UK, it would have no guarantee of a currency union, and none of the former, current or possible Chancellors of the Exchequer thought it would be in the interests of the rUK to have a currency union.<br /><br />As was also pointed out at the time, an independent Scotland would be quite free to go on using sterling in the same way as Panama uses the dollar.<br /><br />It should probably have been emphasised more than it was that neither of these options offered much in the way of an independent Scotland having an independent economic policy. It would have remained under the control of the City of London and the Bank of England, without having any voice or vote at Westminster.<br /><br />All this was well known to the pro-indy Left, but they still thought it expedient to say, as Colin Fox did: 'They're telling us we cannae use the pound!'Kenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03493440163559858462noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-36597149597888868692015-05-27T21:29:47.666+01:002015-05-27T21:29:47.666+01:00Nice piece Phil, though the echo chamber effect ha...Nice piece Phil, though the echo chamber effect has made me newly mistrustful of the worth of social media. And there is rather more than a hop and a skip I think between social media identity and the sort of activism that really counts.Mark Walmsleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15373415686920011458noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-50715669897619472682015-05-27T17:13:57.442+01:002015-05-27T17:13:57.442+01:00I do fear that those who are/were writing the obit...I do fear that those who are/were writing the obituaries of the Lib dems are/were way over-estimating the British public!BCFGnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-6537614786075541602015-05-27T16:58:29.831+01:002015-05-27T16:58:29.831+01:00Labour were repeatedly invited by Salmond to propo...Labour were repeatedly invited by Salmond to propose a middle way which could be Option 3 in the indyref. They could have campaigned for that positively instead of holding hands with Osborne to tell Scots they would never be allowed to use their own £ Sterling etc. At the time Unionists thought this intervention would destroy the Yes side, but it detonated an explosion of resentment and defiance and marked the beginning of the upswing for Yes. Labour had campaigned as small n nationalists from 1987 with great success. They destroyed that the minute they publicly joined hands with the Tories. Recovery might take a while...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-24223190816876178342015-05-27T08:51:39.094+01:002015-05-27T08:51:39.094+01:00It seems to be the received wisdom that Labour han...It seems to be the received wisdom that Labour handled the Scottish referendum "spectacularly stupidly" but I don't see how it could have seriously played it any differently. <br /><br />People were offered a binary choice - and you were either on one side of the argument or another. Perhaps Labour could have changed the nuance of their approach somewhat, but that division would remain. <br /><br />Labour in Scotland were a victim of the detoxification of nationalism, the long defeat of socialism (which began in 1989), and the decadence of the general public. They had nothing to offer the Scots, other than Tory-lite. However in Scotland they had a meaningful (if not particularly serious) alternative. In England they had none. Labour lost in Scotland for the same reasons they lost in England. <br /><br />But now I have arrived at that point, I suppose you were saying ,uch the same... ;-)Speedynoreply@blogger.com