tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post7753580290809676722..comments2024-03-29T09:14:53.583+00:00Comments on All That Is Solid ...: New Anti-BNP Leaflet Hits the StreetsPhilhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06298147857234479278noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-90107612585663157192009-10-08T12:05:26.505+01:002009-10-08T12:05:26.505+01:00For the SWP anti-fascism is about posing as a ra-r...<i>For the SWP anti-fascism is about posing as a ra-ra-revolutionary and "doing something" about the BNP</i><br />Surely not. Isn't it a more likely explanation of their behaviour that they think they have the right strategy, and the rise of the BNP in Stoke has more to do with [those notorious] objective factors than the failings of the SWP? Is you explanation of the post-79 decline of the NF that it is down to incorporation by Thatcher,because to admit that that the ANL was key would be to concede that the SWP sometimes has the right strategy?Perhaps your differences could be expressed in a more comradely way.skidmarxnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-24206072339786835232009-10-05T14:40:50.574+01:002009-10-05T14:40:50.574+01:00I think that organisations such as NORSCARF in its...I think that organisations such as NORSCARF in its present form are okay for general mobilisations where its just a matter of getting as many numbers out to confront the fascists as possible. However, I don't think that they are any use whatsoever when it comes to confronting the fascists ideologically and politically, precisely because as cross-class organisations they are unable to present a coherent alternative.<br /><br />Indeed, because such organisations always tend to become subordinated to the need to keep the bouregois elements sweet, not to frighten off the vicars and bishops and so on, where they do present any kind of alternative view it is always at best reformist, at worst simply bourgeois moralising. The Left should refrain from any vain attempts at trying to use such organisations to provide alternatives, and focus its attention on creating a United Front of Labour Movement organisations committed to some minimum socialist platform - March separately strike together.<br /><br />That was brought home to me clearly earlier this year in a debate I had online with some NORSARF members who were putting forward not only Nationalistic sentiments, but even defending the role of Britsih Colonialism! That in itself you would have thought would have been reason for an organisation whose purpose is to combat Nationalistic and Racist ideas to conduct a thorough debate of those issues. But, in fact, it simply prompted concern that such a debate was occurring, because it exposed divisions!!!!<br /><br />Okay NORSCARF does have an online debating forum, but it is subscribed to by just 12 people! If a political organisation cannot engage in lively political debate of this kind then it is dead. I think actually Phil, that given the widespread readership of your blog you would be in a good position to set up a blog just for local Labour Movement people to discuss anti-fascist work, and to formulate an adequate political platform for confronting the fascists. That would make a good start.Boffyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08157650969929097569noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-61236262781235177242009-10-05T13:10:04.200+01:002009-10-05T13:10:04.200+01:00Thanks Phil for your support. NorSCARF are planni...Thanks Phil for your support. NorSCARF are planning future campaigning events in Stoke on Trent. We would encourage you all to support us in fighting the BNP.<br />Best<br />OlwenAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-61585286052084109992009-10-04T18:20:24.029+01:002009-10-04T18:20:24.029+01:00I think you need to confront the fascists on all l...I think you need to confront the fascists on all levels, in the political arena we should expose their fascist and racist policies because I often hear people say that when the BNP appear on TV they don't look so extreme. The problem is we are not exposing the BNP for what they are.<br /><br />However, I agree that we should provide critiques of their 'general programme' if such a thing really exists. They seem pretty opportunistic to me, spreading hate and lies whereever they can.<br /><br />When it comes to BNP street groups such as the EDL, then the anti fascists have it spot on and should be praised for their actions.<br /><br />Having said all this, we should not overplay the BNP, their share of the vote will again be way below the attention they get.Chrisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-61227032069389981212009-10-04T17:46:39.805+01:002009-10-04T17:46:39.805+01:00My spies tell me he's planning to engage in an...My spies tell me he's planning to engage in an orgy of leafleting very shortly. You'd better warn your mum.<br /><br />He can still be found talking crap on Pits 'n' Pots.Philhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06298147857234479278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-635837691203736972009-10-04T14:57:04.804+01:002009-10-04T14:57:04.804+01:00Doesn't Elsby live in the same ward as Albert ...Doesn't Elsby live in the same ward as Albert Walker? My mum lives in Baddeley Green, so she is "represented" by the BNP. (not a situation she is happy with).<br /><br />I haven't seen any of his posts lately. I haven't heard anything from him, online or otherwise, since he put a leaflet through my mum's letterbox last year.asquithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14246701347539264295noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-4895040666237520762009-10-04T11:35:01.589+01:002009-10-04T11:35:01.589+01:00Also one bit I didn't include on the leaflet&#...Also one bit I didn't include on the leaflet's text is the about NorSCARF blurb as I didn't think it was necessary. Here it is:<br /><br />" We are a broad based group set up to defend communities against racism and fascism.<br /><br />We are supported by faith and community groups across North Staffordshire who are determined not to let racism divide our neighbourhoods. If you share our aims get involved".Philhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06298147857234479278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-63658472150142737882009-10-04T11:09:42.577+01:002009-10-04T11:09:42.577+01:00Dave, I never realised how clueless you were. This...Dave, I never realised how clueless you were. This is a shame because your blog used to be thoughtful once upon a time. I shouldn't be surprised to see extended exposure to the SWP has eroded your capacity to think critically about socialist activism.<br /><br />Try and think through the situation for a moment (I know it might be hard). In Stoke the BNP have been on the rise for a long time. Overwhelmingly the tens of thousands of anti-fascist leaflets put out - be they UAF or Searchlight sourced - have been of <a href="http://averypublicsociologist.blogspot.com/2007/03/fighting-bnp.html" rel="nofollow">this character</a>. Please note they are just as guilty "of rallying around the mainstream parties when their policies and local representatives are rightly unpopular". Indeed UAF continues to do this to this day - perhaps you ought take this up with your branch why the SWP continues to do this. But I digress.<br /><br />Now, this is the tricky bit, despite pointing out time and again the fascist and racist roots of the BNP their support continues to grow and turn out in elections remains depressed. What to do?<br /><br />Sensible anti-fascists who live in the real world have concluded it might be worthwhile trying to take a different tack. Instead of attacking the BNP on their general programme, given their moronic local strategy NorSCARF has rightly decided it might be worthwhile demonstrating how the BNP works against the interests of their core support. In other words, it's countering the BNP's politics with some political arguments of their own. This doesn't preclude attacking the BNP for their racism - but there's only so much you can fit on a leaflet.<br /><br />This is not "opportunist" - it is the precondition of effective anti-fascism. But as we know you're not interested in that. For the SWP anti-fascism is about posing as a ra-ra-revolutionary and "doing something" about the BNP, even if that something is discredited and has a poor track record. But as long as the activists stay active, eh?Philhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06298147857234479278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-5223443027076665692009-10-04T00:27:16.927+01:002009-10-04T00:27:16.927+01:00what a ridiculous thing to say, as if the rise of ...what a ridiculous thing to say, as if the rise of the bnp over the last half decade could have been stopped if only uaf publicity had strenuously avoided any reference to racism or fascism. Now can you tell me how you are building an "antifascist movement" with publicity that pretends fascism isn't even an issue.<br />When they came for the jews i did not speak out because i wasn't a jew, but when they came for the council's unpopular academies project i knew it was time to start with the "no pasaran".<br />You yourself acknowledge the futility of rallying around the mainstream parties when their policies and local representatives are rightly unpopular, so why do it?<br />Why narrow the antifascist movement with popular frontism?<br /><br />WHY NOT CONFRONT RACISM AND FASCISM instead of pretending they don't matter? And as for the profanity... 20 muslim graves have just been desecrated in chorlton, presumably by neonazis, and you, a supposed socialist, pour scorn on those who make an issue out of fascism... I reserve the right to swear!Dnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-50533150496347020852009-10-04T00:11:09.742+01:002009-10-04T00:11:09.742+01:00phil, i can't tell you how hopeful i was that ...phil, i can't tell you how hopeful i was that your post would entice gary elsby out from his fort made of shit leaflets! <br /><br />come on gazza, you know how to stick it to the nazi scum, right?Adamnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-87581034974714130282009-10-03T23:43:40.079+01:002009-10-03T23:43:40.079+01:00Dave, please tell us (preferably without the profa...Dave, please tell us (preferably without the profanities - this is a family blog) where the SWP's approach of pinning the Nazi tail onto the fascist donkey has got the anti-fascist movement? Could you tell the readers of this blog how, despite 9 years of saturating targeted areas of Stoke with 'don't vote Nazi' leaflets, we have a situation where the BNP holds nine councillors?Philhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06298147857234479278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-88826096556848560152009-10-03T23:28:06.271+01:002009-10-03T23:28:06.271+01:00cheap, nasty opportunism. Avoids talking about the...cheap, nasty opportunism. Avoids talking about the threat of fascism at all costs. If the threat from the bnp is that they will mismanage the local council then who gives a fuck - remember they're up against 3 parties everyone knows are up to their necks in corruption and gearing up for a massive attack on public services, so based on the arguments but forward by popular fronters in like these there's no reason not to count them as a legit protest vote.<br />Whereas if you were to mention the bnp's well-fucking-documented project to build a nazi movement and create an all-white britain... In fact never mind the n-word and the f-word for a second - unless i'm not mistaken there's not even a single lousy reference to racism.<br />I mean the stuff on sexism isn't bad (and btw does make it into uaf publicity too) but the obvious squeamishness about confronting racism really sticks in the throat tonight, as i learn about the attacks in chorlton.<br />By making the debate about local government issues and conspicuously avoiding the issue of fascism, you thereby normalise it.<br />I mean i understand why hop not hat takes this position, but doesn't the sp still count itself as nominally revolutionary? What's the thinking - given up on ppl not being racist and just hoping they won't join up the dots?<br />Like i said, it's cheap shitty opportunism and if you ever come face to face with the victims of fascist violence i dunno how you'll be able to look them in the eyeDhttp://www.twitter.com/capitald17noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-59623785665850907362009-10-03T21:55:05.451+01:002009-10-03T21:55:05.451+01:00Intellectual titans the BNP are not. And their pla...Intellectual titans the BNP are not. And their plans to go after the CAB has always struck me as one of their most moronic local policies - even from their own point of view.Philhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06298147857234479278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-87793833431747163412009-10-03T20:42:02.981+01:002009-10-03T20:42:02.981+01:00I remember the CAB "plans"- spectaculral...I remember the CAB "plans"- spectaculraly ill though out shite as they were. Did they plan to fire all the immigrants who work there & help BNP voters every day, or did they not manage to get that far? <br /><br />Coleman probably pissed off half the city, including the majority of his voters (!), with his comments about deadbeat parents. Maybe draw attention to that, especially somewhere like Meir (yes, yes, but it's true isn't it?)<br /><br />Arf!<br /><br />Went to Roberto's for a family occasion- didn't particularly want to be there- may have had a bit much drink :)asquithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14246701347539264295noreply@blogger.com