tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post6951171537648997998..comments2024-03-27T09:14:27.496+00:00Comments on All That Is Solid ...: Polemical Shadow BoxingPhilhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06298147857234479278noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-58918919160943277902008-08-03T14:46:00.000+01:002008-08-03T14:46:00.000+01:00Couldn't bear to leave a comment on the SU blog. ...Couldn't bear to leave a comment on the SU blog. It is a tragedy and travesity that this death happened - both the antecedants and the consequences. Also since when did the SW support the death sentence? The families involved will have been badly affected on both sides.<BR/><BR/>The SWP positionon the BNP I think is wishy washy and quite liberal its all - oooooooooo stop the Nazis but I think the BNP are more than that and different than Nazis of the 30s and 40s - they a reactionary racist party. The arguments and fights we had with the SWP in the SSp when they were in the party about popular and united fronts and how to fight back against the fascists/BNP were long, protracted and came to no good solution. That is why you get "look at the SSP and their attitude to the UAF" We did not accept that was the way forward and refused to affiliate to any organisation that was not open and accountable. We actually agreed to affiliate to UAF but the conditions had to be that we were included in the democratic structures and the accounts were open - so guess what we never properly affiliated.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-3510676999281439552008-08-03T13:50:00.000+01:002008-08-03T13:50:00.000+01:00Phil,agreed, I have been following and participati...Phil,<BR/><BR/>agreed, I have been following and participating in that debate<BR/><BR/>and unlike your SWP interlocutor's I came to realise the limitation's of current /recent anti-BNP propaganda<BR/><BR/>It is possible that the BNP will morph into a Le Pen type grouping<BR/><BR/>and its clear from reading the discussions at SU that people haven't ask the elementary question: <BR/><BR/>why did the NF in France grow and how ?<BR/><BR/>so much for internationalism!<BR/><BR/>background: in the 1970s the French NF were very small, and France's Left very very big. so it is good to look at what changed and what mistakes were made.ModernityBloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06354254639321208955noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-86199103062585994462008-08-03T11:57:00.000+01:002008-08-03T11:57:00.000+01:00Cheers Mod. As I've said over at Socialist Unity, ...Cheers Mod. As I've said over at Socialist Unity, the debate about anti-fascism is both timely and necessary. There is a possibility the BNP could make a significant breakthrough next year. The strategy and tactics the left adopts now will play a part in their success or failure. What the SWP cannot get through their collective heads is that labelling the BNP 'Nazis' and leaving it at that has not worked and will not work. If they are able to build a unified movement of themselves, some trade unions, Labour-types and religious sorts around this approach, it is a unity that will do little to defeat the BNP.Philhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06298147857234479278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-55043068913486379792008-08-01T21:05:00.000+01:002008-08-01T21:05:00.000+01:00been reading the post and comments on SU, PhilI th...been reading the post and comments on SU, Phil<BR/><BR/>I think the SWPers' reaction indicates how right you wereModernityBloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06354254639321208955noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-7877454327764989412008-08-01T14:19:00.000+01:002008-08-01T14:19:00.000+01:00Lol, shall we repeat the debate we've been having ...Lol, shall we repeat the debate we've been having there? ;)<BR/><BR/>Snowball, thanks for reiterating everything Weyman Bennett said on Saturday.<BR/><BR/>Look, united movements are fine and dandy. But what is unity for? In this case unity has been achieved around a liberal leaflet that does very little to challenge the BNP *politically*. It’s all about pinning the Nazi tail on the fascist donkey. What you cannot compute is this approach has *failed* and doesn’t work in Stoke.<BR/><BR/>The BNP have been repeatedly exposed as fascists, oddballs and holocaust deniers over the years and yet they can expect respectable votes nearly everywhere they stand. This suggests to me something isn’t working.<BR/><BR/>Whatever you think of Searchlight, at least they’re having an ongoing discussion about this and trying to come up with new ways of stopping the BNP. But it seems your organisation and the UAF have got your collective heads in the sand.Philhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06298147857234479278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-15719607010845982702008-08-01T13:33:00.000+01:002008-08-01T13:33:00.000+01:00I posted this on Socialist Unity, but I figured I ...I posted this on Socialist Unity, but I figured I may as well put it up here too...<BR/><BR/>Phil - two points. Firstly, Socialist Worker does not explicitly attack the Socialist Party in its article in the manner you describe - to do so would be sectarian at a time when unity in necessary and urgent in the struggle against the Nazis. Rather it makes the political point that it is unhelpful for anti-fascists to focus attention on arguing about the death of one racist thug when it comes to building a mass movement that can kick the Nazis out of Stoke.<BR/><BR/>Secondly, to build a mass movement against the Nazis requires going wider than just the socialist left. It means finding and working with people from all walks of life including religious communities as well as trade unions who are prepared to do practical work and activity against the BNP. Such a coalition - that would involve members of all parties (except the BNP and far right parties obviously) and people who are not part of any party - can only be built on a broader basis if one focuses attention solely on what the fascist menace represents.<BR/><BR/>Such coalitions of course need to be revived and built up across the country and not just in Stoke. But where they have been formed they have been successful. The strategy and tactics of UAF have been vindicated from in particular places like Oldham where the BNP once hoped to make their stronghold in the past.<BR/><BR/>In places like Stoke, where the threat from the BNP is particularly acute, surely time and energy would be better devoted by all the left in trying to build up such a strong united movement that could benefit from being linked to a national organisation which is backed by almost every major trade union like Unite Against Fascism, rather than engaging in unwarranted sectarian attacks on the internet against each other?Snowballhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00019207537450855316noreply@blogger.com