tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post6473052177561722542..comments2024-03-27T09:14:27.496+00:00Comments on All That Is Solid ...: Digging Labour's GravePhilhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06298147857234479278noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-47511665769487628912021-10-27T10:38:25.910+01:002021-10-27T10:38:25.910+01:00"But the big question is who is the shining s..."But the big question is who is the shining star of the left"<br /><br />This is not even a small question, it is a stupid one, typical of Kamo.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-82095779871823556392021-10-27T09:24:11.545+01:002021-10-27T09:24:11.545+01:00«mobilise the marginalised masses without [..] ali...«<i>mobilise the marginalised masses without [..] alienates the broader population [...] ends any hope of electoral success?</i>»<br /><br />If one starts from the premise that the "broader population" is tory, the consequence is New Labour's strategy of waiting their turn for the "soft tory" voters to be disappointed by the Conservatives and abstain or switch to New Labour.<br /><br />But the broader population has non-thatcherite interests, and is also mostly "proletarian", and even for those workers who are also property owners there are two categories that would vote for Labour:<br /><br />* Those who own property in "pushed behind" areas, as their interest is to attract jobs and thus tenants and buyer to those areas, where prices have been falling in real terms. Their interests are not the same as those of property owners in the south-east. That the Conservatives can end up representing the rival interests of property owners in the south-east and in "pushed behind" areas is largely the result of the amazing stupidity of "leftoids".<br /><br />* Those whose jobs (and secondarily properties) are insecure even if they think they are middle class. Again here the "leftoids" with their moralizing "loser liberalism" mixed with identity politics are very effective at repelling those marginal middle class voters whose main interest is having a "safety net", by making it look like the "safety net" is only for the poor and discriminated.<br /><br />The "left" must be primarily non-thatcherite rather than anti-Conservative, even before being social-democratic or democratic socialist or anti-capitalist, because whatever the opinion as to the end-game, I reckon a significant majority of voters have non-thatcherite interests. Perhaps aiming for "butskellism" is a sell-out, but it can be a very valuable stepping stone.<br /><br />But the immediate problem for the "left" is not so much attracting "pushed behind" property owners or insecure middle class voters, it is that there is no major party representing non-thatcherites. That there should be no major non-thatcherite party even if a majority of those who have the vote are non-thatcherites is of course precisely the purpose of the Mandelson Tendency.<br /><br />«<i>the big question is who is the shining star of the left</i>»<br /><br />That is a not such a big question: the leader does not matter much electorally as a rule, as Tony Blair said most voters vote on instinct as to their interests; Tony Blair was a rare exception to the rule, as he had a strong negative on the New Labour vote, losing 4-5 million votes from the level he had inherited from John Smith (which were gifted to him by Nigel Lawson's crashing of the property market).<br /><br />If Andy Burnham recent betrayal of thatcherism (“<i>the 80s</i>”) is sincere, he could be however a useful rallying point:<br /><br />https://www.politicshome.com/thehouse/article/andy-burnham-im-not-hatching-any-plans-to-get-back-to-westminster-any-time-soon<br />«<i>Burnham [...] has more clarity on what he is about as a politician and explains to The House that, in essence, that is “rolling back the 80s”. “I feel like [the 80s] was when things changed for the worse in this country, both in terms of the demise of certain industries, the loss of affordable public transport, council housing,” he says.” I believe you trace a lot of our problems back to then and the sadness for me is that New Labour didn’t fix those things. It did some good things, don’t get me wrong, but it didn’t fix those things.”</i>»<br /><br />Even if he is not a figure who can enthuse "proletarians" like this:<br /><br />https://skwawkbox.org/2021/09/25/video-evans-asks-conference-why-they-joined-labour-oh-jeremy-corbyn-is-the-reply/<br />“<i>But Evans made the mistake of asking the audience why they joined Labour – and received ‘Jeremy Corbyn’ as the overwhelming reply.</i>”Blissexnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-68536796167423812792021-10-26T22:30:04.018+01:002021-10-26T22:30:04.018+01:00But the big question is who is the shining star of...But the big question is who is the shining star of the left who can mobilise the marginalised masses without falling in to the Wolfie Smith shtick that alienates the broader population and immediately ends any hope of electoral success?Kamonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-71307898985534407642021-10-26T16:18:28.675+01:002021-10-26T16:18:28.675+01:00Didn't the "cash rich unions" effect...Didn't the "cash rich unions" effectively ensure at coference that Starmer's union-bashing replacement (aka Wes Streeting) will finessed into position through a PLP- and grandee-led coronation?Shai Masothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00452453462950704943noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-47078409667569802452021-10-26T15:07:06.643+01:002021-10-26T15:07:06.643+01:00«the PLP's hard right could get to play out th...«<i>the PLP's hard right could get to play out their Change UK-adjacent fantasies. With the same end result.</i>»<br /><br />But the point of taking over the "Labour" brand is precisely to avoid the fate of ChangeUK, art least for several years: the "Labour" brand is automatically voted by at least 25% of voters who still think it is means "on the side of workers".<br /><br />New Labour's formula is pretty much "ChangeUK/LibDems plus 25% of voters". That is the precise formula for PASOKification, but it can take more than 10 years before those who automatically vote "Labour" realize they are voting for the "whig" right and not for the social-democratic centre-left.Blissexnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-16185917132007052452021-10-26T07:27:31.251+01:002021-10-26T07:27:31.251+01:00There’s a message going round from the Party osten...There’s a message going round from the Party ostensibly aiming to assess the position of CLPs if there’s an election soon. It pretty quickly gets onto finances. Given the mess Starmer and Evans have created in the party finances can it be long before a new levy on CLPs is suggested?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com