tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post5400475575979980624..comments2024-03-29T09:14:53.583+00:00Comments on All That Is Solid ...: The Working Class Politics of BrexitPhilhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06298147857234479278noreply@blogger.comBlogger41125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-62675776065593018482019-12-17T12:16:31.426+00:002019-12-17T12:16:31.426+00:00It is one thing to say to the Brexiteers, you were...It is one thing to say to the Brexiteers, you were wrong, you were stupid, you were misled (and by all means keep ramming that down their stupid throats) but it is one giant leap to then say, therefore because I think you are wrong, stupid and gullible we will make your vote null and void!<br /><br />This is the platform which Boffy's thinks would have been a success.<br />They might be as thick as pig shit but they do like their dignity!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-44318954344531185282019-12-17T11:56:24.801+00:002019-12-17T11:56:24.801+00:00"Labour in 2017 managed to get a strong youth..."Labour in 2017 managed to get a strong youth vote, but in 2019 the youth vote only came out strongly in Remain areas, not in Leave areas where it was most badly needed."<br /><br />But, one reason for that was Labour's own pro-Brexit stance. In Leave voting areas, like Stoke, the Labour MP's voted with the Tories and adopted a thoroughly reactionary pro-Brexit stance. In neighbouring Newctaslye, pro EU MP Paul Farrelly stood down, and Labour's replacement maintained a virtual stoney silence on the issue, other than a line saying that Labour would negotiate a Labour Brexit.<br /><br />In other areas in the North-east and Yorkshire, Labour MP's like Caroline Flint and Ronnie Campbell had also continually put out a reactionary nationalist pro-Brexit line for years. Is it any wonder that young progressive working-class voters saw no point in voting for a nunch of reactionaries, in those seats?Boffyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08157650969929097569noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-88242822032986174452019-12-17T09:42:35.957+00:002019-12-17T09:42:35.957+00:00"If you actually look at the vote breakdown i..."If you actually look at the vote breakdown in the so called Labour heartlands then the Brexit party actually prevented the Tories winning a majority in a number of seats."<br /><br />Hartlepool was one such seat: I think the Brexit Party screwed up there big-time by pitching themselves as the way to "stop Corbyn", which of course meant that they took more votes from the Tories than they did from Labour.<br /><br />As for the non-Brexit reasons why Corbyn lost so badly, I'd suggest that:<br /><br />1) Corbyn's Stop the War past (and alleged IRA connections) made him toxic to patriots: especially important in the North East with its high number of military families, and<br /><br />2) Labour in 2017 managed to get a strong youth vote, but in 2019 the youth vote only came out strongly in Remain areas, not in Leave areas where it was most badly needed.George Cartyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12170378024031141482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-27379901735211273312019-12-16T16:38:48.922+00:002019-12-16T16:38:48.922+00:00If you actually look at the vote breakdown in the ...If you actually look at the vote breakdown in the so called Labour heartlands then the Brexit party actually prevented the Tories winning a majority in a number of seats. Assuming you accept that both the Tories and Brexit party reflected the leave vote.<br /><br />I don’t know why the talk is of vote share, it is actually seats that matter. <br /><br />If Labour had taken the Liberal democrat position of ignoring the Brexit vote they would have lost at least as many seats, especially in the Midlands and the North.<br /><br />I agree that Liberal democrat voters would never has swung behind Corbyn, as they clearly want anything but Corbyn and for this reason the Tory remainers stayed loyal to the Tories.<br /><br />It does not matter how you want to dress this up Labour lost because its policies were genuinely social democratic. A Blairite may well have won but if they had we would all have lost anyway. <br /><br />If Labour do manage to stay on a social democratic course then all in all its been a very positive 5 years, if they bring back the Blairites then we may as well all slit our wrists.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-16547536753983172762019-12-16T16:11:03.965+00:002019-12-16T16:11:03.965+00:00George,
Labour's vote fell by 7,000. The Tor...George,<br /><br />Labour's vote fell by 7,000. The Tory vote rose by 3,000. Some of that undoubtedly came from backward labour voters, but some also probably came from UKIP/BP voters. Some will also undoubtedly have come from usual non-voters. The same with BP. Its unlikely that all of the 4800 came from Labour.<br /><br />What we can say is that besides the 1800 much of which went to Liberals and Greens, there is around 1500-2000 more that simply didn't vote. Paul Mason has given a table showing the overall picture, in which its clear that Labour lost more votes to Remain parties than to the Tories/BP. As Paul says, we clawed back some of the millions of votes lost to the Liberals over the last three years, but only by adopting a more clear Second referendum stance, and that was too little too late. Look at the Scottish results or the results from earlier in the year and that is obvious.<br /><br />The Leavers were not inevitably going to win. They are a minority, and their numbers are declining. They are decimated in Scotland, because the SNP has been able to clothe itself in the garb of radical social democracy, and has presented a militant anti-Brexit stance. Labour should have been in a better position, because Corbyn's social democratic agenda was real, whilst the SNP's is fake. They remain in practice the same Tartan Tories they have always been. The trouble is that Labour has failed to argue consistently either a militant anti-Brexit position, or for its social democratic agenda, instead dumping it on the electorate at the last minute like someone seeking to garner affection by handing out goodies. If Labour in 2016 had a) actually organised an effective anti-Brexit campaigm, instead of making Alan Johnson its coordinator who then disappeared from sight, and b) continued to argue that Brexit was reactionary, and Labour would seek to overturn it, whilst continuing to actively explain in working-class districts why it had to be reversed, then it would been possible as Paul Mason also says, to have prevented the resurgence of the Liberals and Blair-rights, and to have given Labour hegemony over the anti-Brexit vote, thereby defeating the Tories.<br /><br />I'm arguing that a referendum requires at least two options, and it was no business of Labour to be putting forward any kind of Leave option. I'm arguing that labour should have opposed a referendum, and said that if elected it would revoke Article 50. That position was supported by 70% of Labour's Remain voters, who, in turn constituted 70% of Labour's 2017 voters. 25% of labour's 2017 Leave voters also said that it would be "an acceptable outcome", which means that a clear majority of Labour's voters overall would have backed it, despite the fact it was the Liberals proposing it, and Labour opposing it!<br />Boffyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08157650969929097569noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-70185588448411025942019-12-16T15:24:47.849+00:002019-12-16T15:24:47.849+00:00“Its what happens if you do not consistently argue...“Its what happens if you do not consistently argue against those reactionary ideas”<br /><br />So says the servile lackey that has been promoting imperialism for the past 20 years, telling us that this uber economic nationalism is civilising! Boffy has done everything in his power to keep the working class obedient to its masters.<br /><br />The individualist economism of the workers and the middle classes is but a subset of the true economic nationalism, i.e. imperialism. While the individualist economism is all about I am alright jack and sod the rest, economic nationalism is about controlling shipping lanes, access to key resources and military dominance. The masters can rely on the support of the masses while ever this sweet arrangement is in place.<br /><br />Boffy's analysis is so poverty stricken that he doesn't even recognise that the economic nationalism which he continually decries is precisely the thing that he supports the most. It is precisely Boffy's servile support of imperialism that marks him out as the scumbag that he is and marks him out as not only a racist but an enemy of socialism. theOnlySanePersonOnPlanetEarthnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-49994664536548330132019-12-16T15:02:28.312+00:002019-12-16T15:02:28.312+00:00Boffy: "In Sedgefield the Tory vote rose by 3...Boffy: "In Sedgefield the Tory vote rose by 3,000, Labour's fell by 7,000. The BP vote rose by 1800 compared to UKIP, but the Liberal vote rose by 1200, and the Greens by 300."<br /><br />So Labour lost roughly 4800 votes to "Leave" parties (Tories and BXP) but only 1500 to "Remain" parties (Liberals and Greens): looks I was right about Leavers being the problem then. Perhaps the Leavers only stayed with Labour in 2017 because Theresa May's snap election didn't give the Tory propaganda machine enough time to do its work?<br /><br />"Its not genius its basic politics. Last January I predicted its what May would do in February. She didn't, but Boris then replaced her, and did exactly what I said he would."<br /><br />Perhaps the word "genius" was over-egging the pudding, but my point stands that the geographical distribution of Leavers and Remainers meant that the Leavers would inevitably win provided they were united.<br /><br />"The second referendum stance was never a goer, because it implies you have to have a Leave option, which means someone has to decide what it is, negotiate it etc., which was precisely the basis of the absurdity that arose in Labour's position."<br /><br />Are you arguing that some Labour defectors to Tories were people who didn't care whether Britain left or remained as long as the issue was put to bed one way or another? If not, then I suspect Labour was in a lose-lose position where Brexit was concerned.George Cartyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12170378024031141482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-81238736581830748752019-12-16T10:39:05.208+00:002019-12-16T10:39:05.208+00:00George,
"Labour lost so badly this time beca...George,<br /><br />"Labour lost so badly this time because it lost its Leave voters to the Tories (while the Tories in turn lost almost as many Remain voters to the Lib Dems and Greens). My own consituency (Sedgefield) was one of those that fell last week, and since Farage's Brexit company got considerably more votes than the Lib Dems and Greens combined it is clear that this loss wasn't down to a split Remain vote!"<br /><br />There is no evidence to support that thesis. Its not that either the Tory or BP vote significantly rose, but that Labour's fell. In Sedgefield the Tory vote rose by 3,000, Labour's fell by 7,000. The BP vote rose by 1800 compared to UKIP, but the Liberal vote rose by 1200, and the Greens by 300. In other words, the increase in the Liberal/Green vote was about the same as the increase in the BP vote.<br /><br />The Tories did increase their vote by 3,000 and some of that will be backward Labour voters, but they are the same ones who've voted for reactionary parties in the past. Its what happens if you do not consistently argue against those reactionary ideas, and present a credible alternative narrative. Labour encouraged the continuance of reactionary ideas by its pursuance of the reaction naionalist agenda of a "Labour Brexit" whose basis was the Stalinoid policies of Corbyn and his advisors based upon the theory of building Socialism in One Country. It has failed again.<br /><br />"Boris's genius was to realize that the even though Leavers are probably no longer a majority of the electorate, a General Election in which the votes were cast on Leave/Remain lines would still be an easy win for Leave because Remainers were concentrated in cities. To this end he purged his own party's Remain MPs in order to boost the credibility of his "Get Brexit Done" campaign pitch."<br /><br />Its not genius its basic politics. Last January I predicted its what May would do in February. She didn't, but Boris then replaced her, and did exactly what I said he would.<br /><br />The second referendum stance was never a goer, because it implies you have to have a Leave option, which means someone has to decide what it is, negotiate it etc., which was precisely the basis of the absurdity that arose in Labour's position.<br />Boffyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08157650969929097569noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-3726561103626206192019-12-16T10:21:06.239+00:002019-12-16T10:21:06.239+00:00More like Chairman of The World Association of Tro...More like Chairman of The World Association of Trolls (TWAT), having moved from the Confederation of Uneducated National Trolls (CUNT). The only difference being that TWAT is bigger than CUNT but less useful.Boffyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08157650969929097569noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-68508985633110052812019-12-16T10:05:33.145+00:002019-12-16T10:05:33.145+00:00For workers' MPs on a worker's wage:
Brex...For workers' MPs on a worker's wage:<br /><br />Brexit ‘fatigue’, just like the ‘Falklands factor’ in the 1983 general election, has given the Tories a substantial working majority in the 2019 general election.<br /><br />Now Prime Minister Boris Johnson must deliver on ‘getting Brexit done.’<br /><br />He must also keep his pledge that the NHS is not up for sale to giant American health insurance corporations.<br /><br />There is also the approaching world recession which most economists expect in the second half of 2020.<br /><br />Then there is Scotland. The victorious Scottish National Party, like the nationalists in Catalonia in Spain, are likely to organise a new independence referendum<br /><br />Mr Johnson will also have to deal with the 5-week wait for Universal Credit; the 1.2 million people visiting foodbanks each year; and the 85,000 households in temporary housing (including 125,000 children); not to mention the thousands sleeping rough.<br /><br />Jeremy Corbyn was also a factor in Labour’s defeat. Mr Corbyn’s job in moving Labour to the left is done. A new leader, preferably a woman, is needed.<br /><br />My money is on Rebecca Long-Bailey, Labour MP for Salford and Eccles. A new leader must purge the Parliamentary Labour Party of all remaining Blairite MPs.<br /><br />In North East Cambridgeshire, Tory MP and Brexit Secretary, Stephen Barclay, was again re-elected, now with a 29,993 majority.<br /><br />The only way for Labour to defeat career politicians such as Mr Barclay is for all Labour candidates to stand on the slogan: ‘for a workers’ MP on a worker’s wage.’<br /><br />This will mean the Labour candidate pledging, if elected, to live on the average wage of a Fenland worker (currently around £500 a week) with the surplus being donated to labour movement campaigns.<br /><br />The results of the 2019 general election are only a snapshot in time. A lot can happen in the next 5 years. We must prepare for sharp turns and sudden changes.<br /><br />John Smithee,<br />Wisbech.John Smitheehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14402532402994363762noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-14798176060964564322019-12-16T09:19:42.007+00:002019-12-16T09:19:42.007+00:00Britain has consistently over many years rejected ...Britain has consistently over many years rejected any form of socialism, so it was always going to be a monumental task for Corbyn. So forget about Brexit etc this is the ultimate reason Corbyn could not win a majority in the UK.<br /><br />But it should be pointed out that the British people’s constant and consistent rejection of socialism has been a disaster for the British! Just look at what a catastrophe it has been for Scotland. Scotland should have the same economic wellbeing statistics as its sister Nordic nations but when you look at the figures Scotland lags way behind the Nordic nations in economic outcomes and the only thing Scotland tops is the heart disease or alcoholism charts. Being part of the UK has been an utter calamity for the Scottish people but this is only a reflection of the calamity of rejecting socialist policies time and again.<br /><br />Britain really is a nation of turkeys voting for Christmas.<br /><br />The last thing the Labour party should do is give in to what the ruling class desire the most, i.e. get their cherished New Labour back. Labour stick still stubbornly to a solid socialist platform because that is urgently what is required.<br /><br />John Mann has been appointed Palestinian Baiter General because the ruling class, now having secured the government they want, now wish to secure the opposition they want. We should do all we can to ensure this does not happen.<br />Deviation From The Meannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-83814230816124075742019-12-16T09:12:46.720+00:002019-12-16T09:12:46.720+00:00Boffy has overlooked that the Tory vote in 2019 wa...Boffy has overlooked that the Tory vote in 2019 was not the same as the Tory vote in 2017: while it is roughly the same size it is far more monolithically Leave today.<br /><br />Labour lost so badly this time because it lost its Leave voters to the Tories (while the Tories in turn lost almost as many Remain voters to the Lib Dems and Greens). My own consituency (Sedgefield) was one of those that fell last week, and since Farage's Brexit company got considerably more votes than the Lib Dems and Greens combined it is clear that this loss wasn't down to a split Remain vote!<br /><br />Boris's genius was to realize that the even though Leavers are probably no longer a majority of the electorate, a General Election in which the votes were cast on Leave/Remain lines would still be an easy win for Leave because Remainers were concentrated in cities. To this end he purged his own party's Remain MPs in order to boost the credibility of his "Get Brexit Done" campaign pitch.<br /><br />While about a dozen seats (mostly in London) may have been lost due to a split Remain vote, these seats were far fewer in number than the northern and midland Leave seats lost due to Leaver defections to the Tories. But that doesn't imply the Lexiters were correct, as these Leave voters were largely radicalized to the right by the UK's failure to leave the EU in March 2019, <i>before</i> Labour formally shifted to a second referendum stance.George Cartyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12170378024031141482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-7260696054992305232019-12-15T18:19:09.705+00:002019-12-15T18:19:09.705+00:00Two facts from the election and polls:
First, Lab...Two facts from the election and polls: <br />First, Labour had a higher percentage vote this time than in 2015 and 2010; Conservative vote percent only slightly more in 2019 than 2017.<br />Second, Labour+LibDem vote totals are approx constant in polls from early March to December.<br />Thus the huge drop in Labour's vote through the summer (10 pp)was likely to be almost entirely Remain voters leaving; voters left Labour steadily from 2017 to Feb 2019, amounting to only abour 4 percentage points.<br />Consequently the decision to belatedly shift to supporting a referendum was the least bad option and saved a lot of votes/Ianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00081768072379936132noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-69247424683219141262019-12-15T18:14:53.502+00:002019-12-15T18:14:53.502+00:00The argument is also being presented that the fall...The argument is also being presented that the fall in Labour’s vote is because of Brexit, as shown by the rise in the vote for Farage’s Brexit Party. The figures are frequently presented showing the decline in Labour’s share of the vote being more or less equal to the rise in the share of the BP. It is not true. This election the Brexit Party (plus UKIP) secured around 665,000 votes. All of the Brexit Party vote share appears as a gain, because it did not stand in 2017. However, the BP is really just a continuation UKIP under Farage’s domination, as CEO. In 2017, UKIP secured 594,000 votes, so the actual increase in their vote amounts to only around 70,000. Put another way, in 2017, UKIP’s share of the vote was 1.8% compared to the BP’s 2.0% in this election.<br /><br />In 2017, the Tories secured 13.6 million votes. In 2019, they secured 13.9 million votes, an increase of just 300,000 votes. In 2017, they secured 42.4% of the vote, whereas in 2019 this increased to just 43.6%. Labour clearly did not lose in 2019 because a large part of its vote went to either the Brexit Party or to the Tories. By contrast, in 2017, the Liberals polled 2.3 million votes, whereas in 2019, they polled 3.7 million votes, an increase of around 50%. Labour also lost votes to the SNP in Scotland, where the Tories also lost more than 50% of their seats. In 2019, the Greens secured 835,000 votes, compared to 525,000 in 2017. In other words, and increase of more than 60%. Labour lost, because the millions of Remain voters it won in 2017, deserted it in 2019. And that is a direct result of the pro-Brexit stance that Corbyn and those around him adopted.Boffyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08157650969929097569noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-66287233091376663542019-12-15T13:12:59.855+00:002019-12-15T13:12:59.855+00:00We believe George Galloway, even though we profoun...We believe George Galloway, even though we profoundly disagree with him on brexit, has made the correct first move in this new *political* landscape and that is to stop moaning about reality and start living in it.<br /><br />He has launched the workers party. Now this may seem laughable and maybe it is but at least it recognises we are now in a whole new world and things are up for grabs. We are in a war, a real war. This is going to be about setting the political and economic agenda for the next few decades. <br /><br />It is time to start dusting down those old Christopher Hill books and understand that in times of civil war, and make no mistake we are in one; the space for new ideas grows massively. The coming years will be years of new ideas, we will see the emergence of groups akin to the diggers and levellers. We will see fascists of all stripes; we have a government of fascists.<br /><br />In many ways this coming period is an exciting time, movements will be born.<br /><br />And here is the problem with Galloway’s workers party, a party is not a movement. Electoral politics is utterly superficial, one wrong leaflet can mean defeat, a good PR campaign can make all the difference. A real movement is not superficial; therefore the real movement will grow outside the superficial arena that is electoral politics.<br /><br />Chairman for the Campaign Against American Culture<br />CCAACnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-66993897293772358062019-12-15T12:54:43.160+00:002019-12-15T12:54:43.160+00:00Boffy has been calling the SNP the Tartan Tories f...Boffy has been calling the SNP the Tartan Tories for years and now decides they are socialists like Corbyn! You have to laugh.<br /><br />Boffy also spouting his usual Bosses of the World Unite, you have nothing to lose but unfair markets bollocks.<br /><br />Boffy lambasts the ‘economic nationalism’ of the middle and plebeian classes but positively lauds and supports the economic uber nationalism of the Ruling class. In fact I would argue that the vote for Boris Johnson was not about economic nationalism but was more an individualism/family economism. After all the Tories have gone to war with large elements of the British population, murdering at least 130,000, sending countless others into mental illness and god knows what. The last thing the Tories represent is some kind of nationalist unity! No they represent people who are doing alright thanks very much and don’t want anything to threaten their current cushy lifestyles.<br /><br />When these fanatical individualists were given the choice between the status quo and Corbyn’s bold vision of a brighter and more humanised future the fanatics cried with one voice, the status quo thanks. <br />Moreover the real economic nationalism is imperialism, something which Boffy embraces like a comfy blanket. Imperialism is what keeps the working class dog loyal to its bourgeois master. This is something Marx warned us about in relation to Ireland. If you want to blame anyone on the left for Brexit blame the pro war, pro imperialist left to which Boffy is a high priest and bagman.<br /><br />In many ways the result should not surprise us in any way. The mistake would be to overreact to this vote and move toward the Tory centre. We should stick to Corbynism and celebrate the fact that a socialist has just got 33% of the national vote, where I believed socialism was popular among maybe 5% of the population. Now that is what i call progress!<br /><br />And BTW just because the corporate media manages to find a few people on camera who will say they didn’t like Corbyn doesn’t actually make it an objective fact. Maybe they selected the most unpleasant twats they could find and make them a star for a day! And who but a fool would want to be star for a day!<br />theOnlySanePersonOnPlanetEarthnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-85522639802957835632019-12-15T12:21:58.178+00:002019-12-15T12:21:58.178+00:00I'm always sceptical about comments from peopl...I'm always sceptical about comments from people in the party who rush to say that their well known positions are vindicated by the evidence. I would assign that description to Turley. On only one point would I take any notice: that a GE before leaving the EU would be serious for Labour.<br /><br />On the matter of the unaffordability of the manifesto commitments, well there are economists who disagree. Let's not stop listening to experts. SpiritSkillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12225172385830110611noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-91264880131276172872019-12-15T09:31:49.577+00:002019-12-15T09:31:49.577+00:00There's a lot of noise here, and pointless par...There's a lot of noise here, and pointless partisanism, which illustrates the problem. So, some anonymous commenter knows more than a beaten door-knocking Labour MP? Naturally. <br /><br />From the moment Corbyn was elected it was clear that Labour was consigned to electoral failure because he represented a faction of the Left in the Labour movement that traditionally occupied a handful of the 250-plus seats, a fair reflection of their support in the country. The difference between 2017 and 19 was his relative obscurity to most voters - once the media had woken up to his 'danger' they had two years to bury him.<br /><br />The contempt with which Blairism is spoken is revealing. Blairism was the most successful Labour election-winning machine, and the very policies that made it successful are loathed. Again this represents the backward thinking of commenters here - it is all about them, not the voter. Both with Brexit and this election Cummings, who understood the voter, wiped the floor with the opposition. The Left wants to remake the voter in their image, the voter has other ideas. <br /><br />It is frankly difficult to see how Labour can come back from this within the next decade. Admittedly it received a much higher share of the young vote but as Phil says this no longer automatically identifies itself as Labour, and I suspect much was motivated by Remain as much as nationalising the utilities. Corbynism with a youthful, female face will not work either - the legacy of Corbynism and its trashing as 1970s socialism will run like cracks from an earthquake through future offers, and it will take a huge amount of time to restore public 'trust'. Add to that that Scotland is likely to have left and the risk is Tory hegemony for upwards to 20 years. Public services once taken for granted will melt away, much the same way as today's students can barely imagine a world with full grants. The Milneite aristo-Left with Corbyn's face has done Capital's work for it, and the fact that few of the commentators can recognise this is telling. <br /><br /><br /><br />Speedynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-51255915501199381722019-12-15T07:29:38.147+00:002019-12-15T07:29:38.147+00:00Small consolation, Frank Field lost.Small consolation, Frank Field lost.Jimbohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17882323280846712158noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-33096299941959914732019-12-14T23:39:35.410+00:002019-12-14T23:39:35.410+00:00Ah the "moderates" are amazing, here is ...Ah the "moderates" are amazing, here is Jess Phillips arguing that the northern working class trusted Johnson to be more on their side than Corbyn, but that was not about brexit:<br /><br />https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/dec/14/working-class-voters-didnt-trust-labour-jess-phillips<br /><br />«Everywhere I campaigned, I heard the same thing. It was less about Brexit and more about belief. In these places of generations of Labour voting, they did not believe a Labour government would or could deliver for them. They didn’t trust us. [...] I spoke to people in my constituency and others who were distressed that they couldn’t vote Labour, visibly angry because they felt we, our leader and what we were presenting to them had put them in this position. The more working-class a constituency was, the worse the result was for Labour. [...] The problem isn’t just that working-class people will be hurt by the Tories – it’s that too many don’t believe we’re better than the Tories.»<br /><br />Amazingly many of the working class who did not care about brexit but cared about trust switched from Labour to the Brexit Party (the total Conservative vote increased very little), and even more amazingly some of the best Brexit Party votes happened in working class northern constituencies in parallel with falls in Labour votes, but this was not about brexit, it was about trusting Johnson to be more of a one-nation tory than Corbyn. It is as if nobody had told the northern working classes that Corbyn is a "far leftist" and a "marxist redistributionist".<br /><br />Blissexnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-70745943469354502532019-12-14T22:10:00.392+00:002019-12-14T22:10:00.392+00:00«There would be no Brexit if Labour had had credib...«There would be no Brexit if Labour had had credible leadership in the 2016 referendum»<br /><br />Amazing that A Turley she seems to ignore that J Corbyn's constituency voted 75.2% for "Remain" while in Redcar A Turley lost the referendum by 66.2%, and in 2019 the Labour vote in J Corbyn's constituency has been 65.3%, while she has been the first Labour MP to lose that seat to a Conservative,<br /><br />With achievements like that I guess she should consider becoming the leader for Change UK or the LibDems. :-)Blissexnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-84526471107411451182019-12-14T20:14:20.360+00:002019-12-14T20:14:20.360+00:00Wayne Asher
Anna Turley is part of the Blairite w...Wayne Asher<br /><br />Anna Turley is part of the Blairite wing of the party and a long-standing recalcitrant within the party. She's one of those MPs who's never come terms with the Corbyn leadership and the change of direction of the party. Forgive me if I take what she has to say with more than a grain of salt (no pun intended!) as there's an element of MRDA here. David Parryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16543341419630019419noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-31193281014703309592019-12-14T20:07:31.255+00:002019-12-14T20:07:31.255+00:00«from Anna Turley who was beaten in Redcar»
There...«from Anna Turley who was beaten in Redcar»<br /><br />There seem to be quite a few despicable spivs who claim that when they get a seat their mandate is personally won, not related to the party symbol that endorses them, and they themselves represent their constituents, not the party, and then when they are ejected from that seat they blame the party for having lost their mandate, and any talk of their having earned their constituents personal mandate somehow disappears. We have recently seen how personal was the trust of constituents in C Umunna or C Leslie or F Field, all of which actually run the campaigns against Corbyn, the same campaign A Turley seems to me to be now running after her personal defeat.Blissexnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-70879212238316643342019-12-14T19:52:46.763+00:002019-12-14T19:52:46.763+00:00«To blame Brexit is to miss the point. There would...«To blame Brexit is to miss the point. There would be no Brexit if Labour had had credible leadership in the 2016 referendum, standing up for our party’s values of cooperation, internationalism and partnership. Instead, we had a guy who dressed up in a fur coat to go on The Last Leg and give the EU “seven and a half out of ten”.»<br /><br />Ah these seem to me the usual out-and-out fantasies peddled by people who tend to be profoundly deluded fools falling for the lies of rabid tories, because blaming Corbyn or Labour for brexit instead of Boris Johnson, Alan Johnson, Gove, Farron, Cameron is outrageous, and in particular claiming that someone who spent the whole campaign going around the country advocating for "Remain", who claimed he had voted "Remain", and would vote "Remain" again in the same circumstances, is beyond shameful, it is just tory propaganda, recycled eagerly by tory fellow travellers:<br /><br />« No one put forward an argument to working-class Labour communities about why the EU mattered to them, because the leader didn’t believe that it did.»<br /><br />Just two examples with the simplest google search:<br /><br />https://labourlist.org/2016/04/europe-needs-to-change-but-i-am-voting-to-stay-corbyns-full-speech-on-the-eu/<br />“The Labour Party is overwhelmingly for staying in because we believe the European Union has brought: investment, jobs and protection for workers,”<br />“EU membership has guaranteed working people vital employment rights, including four weeks’ paid holiday, maternity and paternity leave, protections for agency workers and health and safety in the workplace.“<br />“Working together in Europe has led to significant gains for workers here in Britain and Labour is determined to deliver further progressive reform in 2020 the democratic Europe of social justice and workers’ rights that people throughout our continent want to see.”<br />https://jeremycorbyn.org.uk/articles/jeremy-corbyn-my-speech-on-the-labour-case-to-vote-remain-in-the-eu-in-south-yorkshire/<br />“The insecurity of work the lack of good well-paid jobs, the high cost of housing, whether to rent or to buy, how we adjust to, and pay for, an ageing society, the failure to ensure decent economic growth in all parts of the country and in which we all share. That is the failure of politicians, not of the EU or of EU migrants for that matter.”<br />“Labour is calling for a vote to remain in Europe at next week’s referendum because we believe staying in the European Union offers our people a better future in terms of jobs, investment, rights at work and environmental protection.”<br />“I mentioned the scandal of zero hours contracts earlier too. As well as outlawing these exploitative contracts in Britain, we should go further and work with our allies to establish a European minimum standard of rights at work to stop undercutting and give people the job security they need. And now that Germany has introduced a minimum wage there is an opportunity to move towards a European-wide minimum wage – linked to average pay and the cost of living in each country to halt the race to the bottom in pay and conditions, and increase wages across Europe.”Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-24903114776178324992019-12-14T18:32:25.142+00:002019-12-14T18:32:25.142+00:00Yes, it's important to recognise this because ...Yes, it's important to recognise this because class is social and economic rather than cultural in nature.<br /><br />I know this because I am myself working-class by virtue of how little I earn, the position I'm in at work (non-union, and I'd be stunned if one were ever formed here), and where I live. A self-employed builder from Cellarhead may be culturally different to me, but I would say he is middle-class and I am working-class because the facts of life are such.<br /><br />The new working class include many graduates like myself in low & middle-income jobs. And those young professionals living in cities are earning more, but are themselves paying astronomical rents for not especially good housing, and are worse off than their boomer parents even if not exactly working-class.<br /><br />The definition the media use is much more cultural than economic. But the fact that I subscribe to the London Review of Books doesn't make my manager respect me any more, or put any more money into my bank account, so identity politics (which I think is now more common on the right than the left) should be done away with, for the sake of what Guy Standing has christened the precariat.<br /><br />(I was also interested in the group he identifies as the 'proficians', who are highly skilled and may earn a lot but whose work is insecure. Two of them worked for the company I worked for and were unceremoniously fired/laid off with even less compunction than they'd have in making me redundant).<br /><br />I have bought his new book but not read it yet.<br /><br />TLDR, you certainly don't have to be an older male northern manual worker to be working-class, and many people who are culturally different to the traditional working class have interests synonymous with theirs. And in some cases are even worse off materially, a process I expect Brexit to make even worse than it is.<br /><br />PS- Sorry if my filter came off when drunk last night :)asquithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14246701347539264295noreply@blogger.com