tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post4432689336982986583..comments2024-03-29T09:14:53.583+00:00Comments on All That Is Solid ...: Thoughts on the Stoke Central ShortlistPhilhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06298147857234479278noreply@blogger.comBlogger25125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-28437949679431629752017-01-27T12:12:41.211+00:002017-01-27T12:12:41.211+00:00Surely the priority here is to make sure the media...Surely the priority here is to make sure the media are thwarted in their eagerness to demonstrate that a) Corbyn and the Left are a joke b) UKIP and their policies represent serious, mainstream opinion? These are the issues that will be promoted and debated throughout the campaign and its aftermath. This is what will affect the balance of forces across the UK in the short and medium term. <br /><br />The internal politics of the LP need sorting (although personally I believe this is a lost cause), but this is not the time to be splitting over the nuances of post-Blairism. MikeBnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-85637117357552017792017-01-26T16:09:07.955+00:002017-01-26T16:09:07.955+00:00I'm bang on Phil and my information is very ac...I'm bang on Phil and my information is very accurate and well you know it but all credit to you for 'playing ball'.<br />Something has particularly irked you so you should say which bit is wrong.<br /><br />"It's either a choice between the IRA/Hammas loving Jeremy Corbyn or Owen Smith"<br /><br />The above is a comment worthy of any decent UKip/Tory/BNP/NF oddball but this really does need some explaining.<br />Good grief.Gary Elsbynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-37719744651419831232017-01-26T15:46:45.794+00:002017-01-26T15:46:45.794+00:00As a Marxist, if I lived in Stoke Central, I would...As a Marxist, if I lived in Stoke Central, I would still vote Labour, as the workers' party. But, as someone who sees Corbyn as the best hope for Labour, I have to say that I am not at all enthused by a Labour candidate that has shown themselves a clear opponent of the labour leader.<br /><br />If I was simply a Stoke central voter, given the choice of Labour candidate in the vein of all those previous Blair/Brown/Smith conservative (small c) Labour politicians, and a policy based around a limitation of free movement/immigration, and some form of soft Brexit (not likely anyway for the reasons Livingstone set out its hard Brexit or no Brexit) I either would see no point bothering to vote, or else would go for the real UKIP candidate (as the Tories will have no chance) rather than a UKIP lite variant.Boffyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08157650969929097569noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-62923309770053368922017-01-26T13:51:54.310+00:002017-01-26T13:51:54.310+00:00I love me some Gary Elsby, and the garbage above i...I love me some Gary Elsby, and the garbage above is a vintage.<br /><br />Gary, I can understand why some people like to pose on the internet as all-seeing insiders. But I'm afraid you're not one of these people, and you confirm it every time you comment on Stoke Labour affairs.Philhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06298147857234479278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-47757455343252340122017-01-26T11:43:09.807+00:002017-01-26T11:43:09.807+00:002/2 anti Jeremy Corby by-elections.
Congratulatio...2/2 anti Jeremy Corby by-elections.<br /><br />Congratulations to the West Midlands Regional Office.<br />(You were stitched up Trudie)<br /><br />Shame on Stoke Central CLP.<br /><br />Gary Elsbynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-18169951642931169042017-01-26T11:21:34.406+00:002017-01-26T11:21:34.406+00:00«If Snell is the most anti-Corbyn candidate and St...«If Snell is the most anti-Corbyn candidate and Stoke LP very pro-Corbyn, why was he selected?»<br /><br />To represent one of a range of Labour internal flavours? After all Corbyn himself was selected as a candidate in 2015 to give a chance to the socialdemocratic "hattersleyite" (how ironic...) flavour even if most of the PLP were/are centre-right or right "brownista" or "mandelsonians", to the point that he would likely not have been nominated at all without a bit of help.<br /><br />Plus while the flavour of the CLP matters, the flavour of the electorate matters too. If the Stoke electors who might vote Labour were mostly anti-Corbyn (which is extremely unlikely), even a 10-to-1 pro-Corbyn CLP may be well advised to endorse an anti-Corbyn candidate, for various tactical (deny the seat to Nuttall) or strategic (to anyhow bolster the national party) reasons.<br /><br />The oddity with the shortlist as G Elsby noted is not that one candidate but most candidates have/had a range of mandelsonian-ish flavours.<br />Blissexnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-10115073930990108492017-01-26T08:21:27.411+00:002017-01-26T08:21:27.411+00:00If Snell is the most anti-Corbyn candidate and Sto...If Snell is the most anti-Corbyn candidate and Stoke LP very pro-Corbyn, why was he selected?Sarah ABnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-75153987629660161782017-01-25T21:04:16.648+00:002017-01-25T21:04:16.648+00:00Allison Gardner voted for Corbyn..factAllison Gardner voted for Corbyn..factAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-8388859470587470112017-01-25T19:45:54.300+00:002017-01-25T19:45:54.300+00:00«The only people best placed to represent this Cit...«The only people best placed to represent this City are people from outside this City and that goes for the WM stitch ups of Stoke North, Stoke South and Stoke Central.»<br /><br />Well, who writes this deserves a lot of respect for his personal defense of the Labour wing of the New Labour party :-) in the 2010 mandelsonian stitch-up of Stoke, even if I am just a far away observer.<br />But the above is a bit excessive, even if I can see where it is coming from.<br />Ultimately what matters is politics: that the candidate represent the constituency politically, rather than "ethnically". Stoke could well be represented by a candidate arrived yesterday from Cornwall if her politics were those of the local constituency and her desire was to defend and further the economic and political interests of the constituency; of course it is easier for a more local candidate to do this, and vice-versa there are local tory candidates even in the poorer areas of the midlands/north.<br /><br />Note also that despite having politics quite different from those of T Hunt, and being saddened by the way he was rammed into Stoke in 2010, and his politics and not just background being totally detached from Stoke (as he recently all but acknowledged in his last Commons speech), as per the experience of our very public sociologist he seems to be keen to spend resources on a constituency office that did a lot of good local work, and he seems to have backed it too. Good stuff even for a posh interloper.<br /><br />«This is because people from stoke on Trent are just not good enough to cut it.»<br /><br />This is a good parody (hopefully intentional) of the signature refrain of Sacha Baron-Cohen's signature character :-).<br /><br />«I reject Boffy's analysis that looking beyond our borders is a good thing»<br /><br />Agreed if it is read as "not necessarily a good thing", and it is not necessarily a bad thing either. A very local candidate is not always the best, and neither is a non-local one always the best etc..<br /><br />This said, and I think everybody knows that, I read confirmation from our very public sociologist, who is our "native guide", that several Labour local stokies could have been both good local candidates and well aligned to the political and economic interests of the constituency, so G Elsby seems to have a very good point in the context. And Stoke Central after the ramming down of T Hunt probably deserved a bit more localist indulgence.<br /><br />But then consider the case of Corbyn himself: he was included in the national leader shortlist only because some people in the party wanted every main flavour of the PLP to be given a chance.<br />It is good in that sense that there are New Labourists and soft leftists in the shortlist: if all shortlisted candidates had been avowed Corbyn fans it would have been a loss, even in a 10-to-1 CLP.<br />But then by the very same argument that there are none or perhaps just a mild one is an even greater loss. I guess we'll get reports of what they say about their politics when they do their presentations at some CLP meeting imminently, given the very rapid schedule.<br />I am following Stoke with great interest from my far away armchair because it is so symbolic in many ways, and so sadly brutalized in 2010.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-29356344432980390812017-01-25T19:30:16.699+00:002017-01-25T19:30:16.699+00:00Do any of them go to the film theatre? :)
Be it S...Do any of them go to the film theatre? :)<br /><br />Be it Screen Wednesday, or the main programme.asquithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14246701347539264295noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-73138195780140591362017-01-25T17:47:10.450+00:002017-01-25T17:47:10.450+00:00You're wrong on none of the candidates voting ...You're wrong on none of the candidates voting for Corbyn - Allison Gardner voted for him in 2015 'as a corrective'. Its not clear who she voted for in 2016. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-1219302161973932612017-01-25T17:45:22.016+00:002017-01-25T17:45:22.016+00:00Why are the BBC giving credence to a clearly, obvi...Why are the BBC giving credence to a clearly, obviously fake "poll"?<br /><br />Complaints are in order I feel.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-3128851967659678772017-01-25T17:38:47.663+00:002017-01-25T17:38:47.663+00:00Apparently Cllr Dr Allison Gardner voted for Corby...Apparently Cllr Dr Allison Gardner voted for Corbyn both times.Mark Hhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11076461192997498782noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-67531121088006942382017-01-25T17:07:36.798+00:002017-01-25T17:07:36.798+00:00Strange Stephen Hitchin would go through the inter...Strange Stephen Hitchin would go through the interview process and then pullout, surely when he is citing the need to concentrate on his career most people would have thought trying to become an MP was a career move. What is behind this?Organized Rage.https://www.blogger.com/profile/07627288401631451362noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-6955467664960126672017-01-25T16:23:44.424+00:002017-01-25T16:23:44.424+00:00The only people best placed to represent this City...The only people best placed to represent this City are people from outside this City and that goes for the WM stitch ups of Stoke North, Stoke South and Stoke Central.<br />This is because people from stoke on Trent are just not good enough to cut it.<br />The one's who are able to do justice to the seat and represent the people properly are those a few yards away.<br />Really Boffy?<br />Gareth Snell signed a '1000 councillor' letter denouncing Jeremy Corbyn and promoting Owen Smith. He's just what the 80% Corbyn supporting Stoke Central members want.<br />It's now a question of who is inside 'Progress', the paranoid pathological anti Corbyn 'party within a party'and maybe that's a great idea also.<br /><br />I reject Boffy's analysis that looking beyond our borders is a good thing. I reject the interference that has the fingerprints of the WM all over this.<br />I reject the deliberate attack from the Stoke Labour group upon a member of Stoke Labour party, and I can assure you, it is by far more worse than that. <br />It's a scandal and as far as I can see, names have been named and the press fully informed.<br />Not by me.<br />Keeping quiet and not rocking the boat is an attack upon the democratic process of which most Labour party members choose to ignore. The end result is always a second best candidate. <br />Gary Elsbynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-52191774854270019952017-01-25T15:20:55.577+00:002017-01-25T15:20:55.577+00:00Phil,
Fair point, having just read this also at U...Phil,<br /><br />Fair point, having just read this also at <a href="http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/blog/archives/9799" rel="nofollow">UKPollingReport</a>. Shows again not to listen to the Daily Politics.Boffyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08157650969929097569noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-47125596681628915122017-01-25T14:50:18.057+00:002017-01-25T14:50:18.057+00:00The poll is rubbish. It's not a weighted sampl...The poll is rubbish. It's not a weighted sample of substantial size - it's self-selecting.Philhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06298147857234479278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-51389311955199507682017-01-25T14:42:47.103+00:002017-01-25T14:42:47.103+00:00According to the poll undertaken by Labour Leave, ...According to the poll undertaken by <a href="http://www.labourleave.org.uk/labour_can_win_in_stoke_on_trent" rel="nofollow">Labour Leave</a>, Nuttall is on track to poll 35%, with Labour trailing on 25%, but still way ahead of the Tories and Liberals.<br /><br />It looks like there will be a lot of tactical voting of Tories to back UKIP.Boffyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08157650969929097569noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-64821573293770327932017-01-25T13:31:52.814+00:002017-01-25T13:31:52.814+00:00«appointed Jack Dromey»
Wikipedia mentions that J...«appointed Jack Dromey»<br /><br />Wikipedia mentions that J Dromey resigned in June 2016 but then rejoined the frontbench in October. I guess there has to be a reward for coming back. A probably worthwhile compromise, but eventually compromises have to be paid for with more compromises. I also noticed with amusement that he has been long married to H Harman.<br />Blissexnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-62886596152191737632017-01-25T13:25:48.267+00:002017-01-25T13:25:48.267+00:00«an imposed list of business-as-usual candidates»
...«an imposed list of business-as-usual candidates»<br /><br />At least all/most have local connections and connections to the NHS, so not a complete loss.<br /><br />«too much to ask that an actual Jeremy Corbyn supporter came from a Jeremy Corbyn supporting CLP?»<br /><br />This may be a symptom that thanks to their not-quite-so-recent "clever" tactics the anti-Corbyn Labour minority have control of the NEC, or at least of personnel decisions. Or maybe it was a "compromise".<br />Blissexnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-51465763224612308652017-01-25T11:20:21.628+00:002017-01-25T11:20:21.628+00:00Looks like an imposed list of business-as-usual ca...Looks like an imposed list of business-as-usual candidates on a first inspection. But if Stoke Central is caught up in the boundary changes, the eventual winner can always be deselected by the local membership 18 months down the line.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-17906368590914159612017-01-25T10:06:29.620+00:002017-01-25T10:06:29.620+00:00I guess Jeremy Corbyn must also be "Tory-lite...I guess Jeremy Corbyn must also be "Tory-lite" because he favours a mixed economy with markets, co-ops and nationalised enterprises. Get a grip.Philhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06298147857234479278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-21213514533804542442017-01-25T09:18:07.249+00:002017-01-25T09:18:07.249+00:00I don't really care where any of them come fro...I don't really care where any of them come from - I'll leave the birtha movement stuff,and other such medieval parochialism to people like Donald Trump; if we are to be internationalists, we have to be able to look a little beyond the borders of our own Parish - what I am concerned with is that there should be the best possible qualified candidate, able to clearly and confidently argue at least a consistent social-democratic message, and who can build the labour movement in North Staffordshire in years to come, and who in the coming weeks and months is able to provide the required back protection for Corbyn.<br /><br />I am bound to ask, given what you have described, whether in relation to this last requirement, whoever were to be selected, whether things just got better or worse for Corbyn. Why he appointed Jack Dromey to oversee things in that regard I find more than baffling!<br /><br />I have strong memories of the 1980's, when a left movement of the party was frustrated by the accommodation to the soft-left, who in turn accommodated to the Kinnockite right. It turned out very badly, and I fear history is repeating.Boffyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08157650969929097569noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-33074744393806950592017-01-25T08:51:43.073+00:002017-01-25T08:51:43.073+00:00Shame there isn't a proper socialist option. J...Shame there isn't a proper socialist option. Just 4 different shades of Tory-lite.Shai Masothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00452453462950704943noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-43931941000186051022017-01-24T23:23:52.356+00:002017-01-24T23:23:52.356+00:00It was a complete stitch up from start to finish.
...It was a complete stitch up from start to finish.<br />We knew it was going to be that way and in what order.<br />The Labour group nailed one applicant who had the highest endorsement I could only dream of.<br />The other was surplus.<br />Stoke Central is a puppet constituency, is the plaything of London and Mandy is nowhere to be seen.<br />The choices are progress members and a signature to Owen Smith why Jeremy Corby is no good.<br />Was it too much to ask that an actual Jeremy Corbyn supporter came from a Jeremy Corbyn supporting CLP?Gary Elsbynoreply@blogger.com