tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post4255303315797541001..comments2024-03-27T09:14:27.496+00:00Comments on All That Is Solid ...: Conspiracy Files: 7/7Philhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06298147857234479278noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-69753118148740580942009-08-04T13:02:44.339+01:002009-08-04T13:02:44.339+01:00'If the Government didn't do dumb things t...'If the Government didn't do dumb things to begin with, then conspiracy theorists would be easier to debunk'.<br /><br />Newsflash: conspiracy theories like 7/7 are easy to debunk because their proponents have no evidence to prove their claims, and resort to either misrepresenting or distorting the evidence in order to push their case. <br /><br />It's got nothing to do with goverment deceit (whether over Suez, Rainbow Warrior etc), it's whether you are fabricating your claims. And the 7/7 truthers (who also seem to include Holocaust deniers and 9/11 nuts) are definitely telling porkies.sackcloth and ashesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-59150592520136144562009-07-02T10:12:11.608+01:002009-07-02T10:12:11.608+01:00I don't know, I thought they went after the kn...I don't know, I thought they went after the knowledge vacuum that enabled the daft tinfoil hat wearing nonsense to garner support. Also, some people so desperately wanted to buy it.<br /><br />As for exposing the new Jesus thing and that one of the mentalisits was a Holocaust denier, that's all fair, you have to credit the quality of the source, not all sources are of equal value.Daniel Hoffmann-Gillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02531802987223516482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-42808405160742826132009-07-02T02:42:53.707+01:002009-07-02T02:42:53.707+01:00Watched the documentary, but didn't give it my...Watched the documentary, but didn't give it my full attention. Felt it was a bit too easy to go after people who believe they're Jesus or deny the Holocaust, because that rather ignores why the conspiracy theory is widely accepted amongst particular groups in society.<br /><br />The government was warned that a likely response to the invasion of Iraq would be the increased threat of a domestic terror attack, yet even after the atrocity took place and it was revealed by one of the bombers in his "martyrdom" video that it was in response to the war, there's been complete denial that the two are linked.<br /><br />Blair didn't even wait until the investigation had concluded - he went ahead and pronounced it was done by Muslims. This, alongside the police actions against young Muslim men - most of whom have not been charged let alone convicted - has helped to plant doubts in people's minds.<br /><br />We should have had an official by independent inquiry into how this atrocity took place. A court case couldn't take place, obviously, but an inquiry would have revealed the full details of what happened - rather than a drip-drip of revelations, like the fact the four were not "clean skins".<br /><br />But this was resisted because the government feared that it would intrude too much on the activities of the security services. Perhaps it was for the same reason they have avoided an inquiry on the war in Iraq - the evidence would emerge that the government lied us into a war of choice, and as a result we are at increased risk of attack from terrorists.<br /><br />Clearly the intense focus on Muslims helps solidify support for the government's foreign policy, but that doesn't mean the focus need be on Islam. Thirty years ago it was Irish youths being picked up under suspicion of terrorism. No doubt if the inhabitants of Iraq or Afghanistan were of another faith, we would have intense scrutiny on co-religionists living in the UK.Charlie Markshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12770820928636046622noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-22642195345697094972009-07-01T20:43:19.483+01:002009-07-01T20:43:19.483+01:00Spot on that man above!Spot on that man above!Daniel Hoffmann-Gillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02531802987223516482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-46457366320607519902009-07-01T18:48:32.911+01:002009-07-01T18:48:32.911+01:00If you believed a word of the theory as detailed i...If you believed a word of the theory as detailed in the documentary, then you must be so retarded that there is no solution to your condition. <br /><br />If you still believe the theory after it after it was shown to have been made by a middle-aged man called John from Ireland who thinks he's Jesus and worked with a holocaust denier on several parts of the film, then well, I don't know. What do we with do with suck fuckwitted morons?<br /><br />As for the leader of the mosque, there must be someone more intelligent in the whole of Birmingham?<br /><br />Religion. It's enough to make you give up.None of the abovenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-45083954800123981282009-07-01T14:41:40.424+01:002009-07-01T14:41:40.424+01:00Anon - I forget the figures, but I think that most...Anon - I forget the figures, but I think that most CCTV produce images too useless for use in criminal justice proceedings. No surprise that the images of the suicide bombers were less than perfect.Vengeance and Fashionhttp://vengeanceandfashion.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-86825612511081961062009-07-01T12:53:30.479+01:002009-07-01T12:53:30.479+01:00The thing is that the archives of history are full...The thing is that the archives of history are full of Governments doing daft conspiracy-like things and each time one of these daft things emerge from archival research, it gives conspiracy theorists another plausible scenario. If the Government didn't do dumb things to begin with, then conspiracy theorists would be easier to debunk.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-55778895158363171132009-07-01T11:58:39.238+01:002009-07-01T11:58:39.238+01:00First off Rachel, glad you dealt with anon's n...First off Rachel, glad you dealt with anon's nonsense before I waded in all cack-handed and may even have swore at them.<br /><br />Second-up, I watched it Phil and was grateful for all the counter evidence is gave me when debating with tin foil hat wearing loons that frequent the Internet.Daniel Hoffmann-Gillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02531802987223516482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-58028118977057389302009-07-01T09:47:30.996+01:002009-07-01T09:47:30.996+01:00A very good piece Mr Public Sociologist. Thanks fo...A very good piece Mr Public Sociologist. Thanks for that.<br /><br />Re. Anon's comment <br /><br /><i>...why is it, that in the expansive surveillance society we live in, we are only shown one grainy still-image of the four supposed bombers together?</i><br /><br />The CCTV was held back as it was used in evidence at a 2008 trial of 3 men accused of conspiring to cause the explosions. That trial now being over,( following a retrial in spring 2009) the CCTV evidence has been released. <br /><br />In fact, if you watched the BBC doc last night, much of it was reshown. Not merely the infamous original single still of the men entering Luton station, but <br /><br />a) the car with 3 of the biombers in driving on the motorway towards Luton<br />b) the car stopping and Tanweer getting out, buying petrol and then snacks<br />c) The men getting out of the car in Luton station car park and putting on rucksacks<br />d) the men in moving CCTV sequence including the original still entering Luton station<br />e) the men getting on the Thameslink train<br />f) the men getting off the train and walking into Kings X underground<br />g) Hussein wandering about Kings X<br />h) Hussein moving through London up, I think, Grays Inn Rd to get on the bus<br />(i) the train explosing at Edgware<br />(j) The bus exploding as seen through the doors of the BMA <br /><br /><i>That the blast on at least one of the trains definately came from underneath it, due to the metal-wreckage being forced upwards, but we are told it was in a rucksack in the carriage?</i><br /><br />Nope, sorry, one hastily-filed Guardian at Edgeware Rd mentioned survivors further away from the blast describing tiles on the train floor rising up, and Bruce Lait, a survivor unable to remember if he had seen a bomb and thinking that the hole had metal pushed upwards.<br /><br />In fact, later testimony from survivors nearer the explosions was that the bomb was in the carriage. Forensic examination proved this. As to the metal of the carriage floor being twisted up and down - the bombs were placed in rucksacks which were placed on the floor of the train.<br /><br />Trains run on tracks above hard ground a few feet underneath them. An explosion on the carriage floor means that the blast goes up, down, sideways - in all directions. The blast riccochets around - when it strikes the floor of the tunnel it bounces back up again, it also bounces off tunnel walls. <br /><br />What did you expect - that trains run on some kind of jelly? that blasts are sucked deep into the earth's core?<br /><br /> I do wish people would actually bother to familiarise themselves with the facts, before spouting the same old tired tropes they find on the internet. It does not take long to google for 7/7 CCTV footage. It does not take much to understand that explosions are not neat and tidy things. <br /><br />Conspiracy theories might sound exciting - but they fall apart quickly if you lay them out and examine their component parts. Which si why conspiracy theorists like to aask questions - the easy bit - anyone can ask endless questions - but rarely hang about for the answers.Rachelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04807921540492728422noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-65476928368275633102009-07-01T01:29:57.056+01:002009-07-01T01:29:57.056+01:00I am not agreeing with the outlandish theories put...I am not agreeing with the outlandish theories put forth by such a 'documentary' but as you're on the subject of 7/7...<br /><br />...why is it, that in the expansive surveillance society we live in, we are only shown one grainy still-image of the four supposed bombers together? That the blast on at least one of the trains definately came from underneath it, due to the metal-wreckage being forced upwards, but we are told it was in a rucksack in the carriage?<br /><br />Really not one for 'conspiracy theories', but the officially given conspiracy theory of that day doesnt match up to facts either. All I would like is a public release of the evidence. This is not something to take lightly. People died.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com