tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post3964357555937501133..comments2024-03-29T09:14:53.583+00:00Comments on All That Is Solid ...: Branch Meeting: The French RevolutionPhilhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06298147857234479278noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-81099899691464092842008-06-17T10:33:00.000+01:002008-06-17T10:33:00.000+01:00I think we're going to have to agree to disagree, ...I think we're going to have to agree to disagree, Gary. As you say so yourself, Napoleon was 'elected' after returning from Egypt, AFTER he launched his coup. It was later he was voted First Consul for life, and then declared emperor. As far as I know he wasn't an overly repressive ruler of France, but to all intents and purposes a dictator he was.Philhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06298147857234479278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-54136580630930985502008-06-16T09:45:00.000+01:002008-06-16T09:45:00.000+01:00It's this myth of Dictatorship that should be put ...It's this myth of Dictatorship that should be put to the test and maybe the rest will have a fair hearing.<BR/>The revolution was in danger of being lost and Napoleon was a revolutionary.<BR/>He returned from Egypt and was 'elected' first Consul of France.<BR/>Where and whom is saying Dictator?<BR/><BR/>Oh,boy, did those constitutional Monarchies everywhere, not like that.<BR/><BR/>To appease the idea of succession, Napoleon became Emporer of France and peace was somewhat restored and the revolution, saved.<BR/><BR/>All treaties signed and a marriage of convenience arranged between Austria and France (Marie Antionette's Niece).This produced the 'King of Rome'.<BR/><BR/>Still not enough. The Monarchies of Britain and Russia broke every peace rule going and imposed the French Monarchy<BR/><BR/>Upon Napoleon's return from Elba, the Allies waited for him at a point (nowhere near) called Waterloo.<BR/><BR/>Napoleon (set up by rouge Marshalls to lose) was escorted back to Paris by the Imperial Guard and was implored to form a Dictatorship and rid France of her enemies.<BR/><BR/>He refused (why?) because he would 'not lead a mob'.<BR/><BR/>He sought sanctuary in England and was refused and imprisoned on St. Helena.<BR/><BR/>What happened next, is the stuff of legend. Incredible to say the least.<BR/>Was he someone who socialist can be in admiration of? Absolutely!<BR/><BR/>Your group of Socialist Revolutionaries have many hours of enjoyable reading ahead of them and I envy them. As I know what it was like to be fascinated by such a haul.<BR/><BR/>Personally, I would start at Louis XIV (the Sun King) and go from there.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-23407430513789277572008-06-15T21:12:00.000+01:002008-06-15T21:12:00.000+01:00there are probably still copies of it around actua...there are probably still copies of it around actually - i just sold off the last copy i had (apart from my own one) a few months back. but it is being reprinted and should alos be appearing on the website in the not too distant future too.Leftwing Criminologisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12369810078697007763noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-83973048753352237982008-06-15T09:09:00.000+01:002008-06-15T09:09:00.000+01:00So good of you to drop by, Gary.Now this slurring ...So good of you to drop by, Gary.<BR/><BR/>Now this slurring business, how would you describe France under Napoleon? A democratic republic? A constitutional monarchy? Or an autocracy which plunged Europe into a series of bloody wars that left six million dead, looted the art treasures of conquered/subordinate territories and left France bankrupt and all of its overseas possessions lost?<BR/><BR/>This isn't to say the social structures Napoleon's armies took with them weren't progressive by the standards of the day, but one needs to be even handed about such things. History is not black and white.<BR/><BR/>Was Napoleon a military genius? Yes. Did the wars he unleashed on Europe speed up the development of capitalism on the continent? Yes. Is Napoleon someone self-described socialists can admire and praise? Not in the slightest.<BR/><BR/>Cheers for the offer Politiques. As I said no one in the branch really knew anything about the French Revolution, so the lead off served as a good discussion. Soon our party is republishing an old book we originally brought out 20 years ago on the revolution, so I would imagine this will be something we'll be revisiting again in the near future. If so I'll certainly tap you up over those PDFs.Philhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06298147857234479278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-77077205836628594722008-06-15T04:27:00.000+01:002008-06-15T04:27:00.000+01:00Holy molly! If we want to exchange ideas on "la re...Holy molly! If we want to exchange ideas on "la revolution francaise de 1789" it's going to take us a while to sort everything out. If you want to read a good book about the french revolution, may I suggest Adolphe Thiers's histoire de la revolution francaise in 10 volumes; you'll find anything, and besides it was written by a guy who was at "l'academie francaise", so it's easily readable, probably one of the best sources on the french revolution.<BR/><BR/>The French revolution started with a problem of power. The french parliament started attacking the Clergy, and the monarchy, that wanted more power, voted a new monarchist resolution to remove many powers from the Parliament around 1787 and 1788, and then the "tiers Etat" declared itself as National Assembly (we still use the same name until this day), then they kicked back Necker, then riots start all over Paris, then it got worse...etc leading to the french revolution (serment du jeu de paume, prise de la Bastille...etc).<BR/><BR/><BR/>I don't really like Napoleon's military conquests, because I'm antiwar anyway, but Napoleon gave France a huge number of institutional treasures, that we still use everyday in the french life (civil code, census, geographical repartitions of the regions/administrations/departments...etc). You can even find Napoleon's era in the field on new technologies. For example, before the pasteurization, the french soldiers were putting their food in the bottle of champagne so that the food won't become perishable.<BR/>We also had a bunch of stoners back then in France, because of the british opium trade, and Napoleon's soldiers (thank you guys) when they were wounded, would ask him to smoke a ball of opium before going back to war - all wounded - but they were so stoned that they could not feel the pain anymore. And when the french soldiers were running out of food, like in Russia, they were eating their own fesces so that they can survive in the cold.<BR/><BR/>After the French Revolution, we got some very troubled part in french history. For example in my city Le Puy-en-Velay, they had profaned the Bishops' tombs, and the Clergy fell under the hands of the government. A couple of decades ago, I had decided to investigate on this story, and I went inside the catacombs of my cathedral (without permission) and they had effectively removed the coffins because they needed the precious metal to build cannons during the Crimea war.<BR/>...etc<BR/>If you guys want, I can forward you some PDF texts (by email preferably) on this subject and the international context (anglo-prussian alliance...etc). I personally don't like this period at all.steven rixhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18154964357134050639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-46767126745897774232008-06-14T20:58:00.000+01:002008-06-14T20:58:00.000+01:00Where do you arrive at the notion that Emperor Bon...Where do you arrive at the notion that Emperor Bonaparte is recorded as a dictator?<BR/><BR/>Explain this slur.<BR/><BR/>NB. It should be noted that napoleon and Josephine(seperately) almost lost their heads to Robespierre as Nobles.napoleon arrived back in France, from Egypt by request.<BR/><BR/>Napoleon remains unchallenged as the greatest historical hero.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-61711209595848394092008-06-14T17:03:00.000+01:002008-06-14T17:03:00.000+01:00Before anyone starts belly-aching, any resemblance...Before anyone starts belly-aching, any resemblance between this post and the cover of Coldplay's latest album is entirely coincidental. This is *not* an exercise in viral marketing for what is probably the most boring band on the planet.Philhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06298147857234479278noreply@blogger.com