tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post2934651417744387589..comments2024-03-27T09:14:27.496+00:00Comments on All That Is Solid ...: The Logic of the Labour LeaversPhilhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06298147857234479278noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-7856731272979019682019-10-25T10:00:56.513+01:002019-10-25T10:00:56.513+01:00George,
It brings it to an end, because if Labour...George,<br /><br />It brings it to an end, because if Labour wins an election on that basis, the whole Brexit debate about the future relation to the EU ends, which it does not with any form of Brexit.<br /><br />True the Faragists will want to continue to raise the issue of Brexit, but what's new. They raised it continually for 40 odd years after 1975 without effect. The truth is that no one was exercised about the issue of Europe before Cameron called the referendum to resolve an internal Tory Party problem. Prior to then, the EU ranked only about 7th in voters list of priorities.<br /><br />No doubt those hardline Leavers will continue to want to press the issue as they did ever since 1975, but they are an ever dwindling minority as they die out, along with the rest of the hardline Tory support. The opposite is not the case. The hardlione support for Remain comes from young people. The biggest loss of support for Corbyn comes from people in the 18-25 age group, who feel betrayed by his failure to pursue the opposition to Brexit they expected from him.<br /><br />That sense of betrayal is not going to go away, and nor is their commitment to fighting to reverse the Brexit vote, which will only gather momentum. Look at the million people who have turned out to oppose Brexit now on two occasions, the seven million that signed the petition to revoke. The Brexiteers have not been able to mobilise even a hundredth of that kind of active mobilisation and support.<br /><br />A Labour government with a working majority that scrapped brexit, and began to implement a radical social-democratic programme would simply move the agenda on. Brexit would become a distant memory, echoed only in the cries in the wilderness by a few increasingly aged dinosaurs.Boffyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08157650969929097569noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-51762231546200806552019-10-25T07:54:41.041+01:002019-10-25T07:54:41.041+01:00People want their MPs to be something they are not...People want their MPs to be something they are not. The projection of qualities on to another due to their perceived status. MPs looking after their own self- interest ( it's a good job!)- weak support of party whip.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-76060897291159664772019-10-24T16:23:46.202+01:002019-10-24T16:23:46.202+01:00Why would revoking Article 50 bring the Brexit nig...Why would revoking Article 50 bring the Brexit nightmare to an end, given that the Tories (with their membership now radicalized by the Brexit press) would surely adopt a policy of re-invoking Article 50 as soon as they won another General Election?<br /><br />You'd have to keep the Tories out of power for a decade or more, until the heavily pro-Brexit boomer generation has mostly died off.George Cartyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12170378024031141482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-85627421834608734492019-10-24T12:49:21.275+01:002019-10-24T12:49:21.275+01:00If you support Tory-lite Labour MPs through the tr...If you support Tory-lite Labour MPs through the trigger process, you get Tory-lite MPs to represent you. It's not difficult.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-13338407129266473912019-10-24T11:45:32.165+01:002019-10-24T11:45:32.165+01:00Phil,
Well I'm glad that you at lest now seem...Phil,<br /><br />Well I'm glad that you at lest now seem to be on a journey back to the side of the angels. However, I see no reason to be amenable to the scab Labour MP's that saved Johnson's bacon.<br /><br />Their excuses for doing so are duplicitous, as you have set out. There is no chance that Johnson was ever going to push through a No Deal, because he knows it would be catastrophic and bring down his government, destroy the Tories for a generation at least, and be the end of Brexit for good, as Britain got an emergency reentry to the EU.<br /><br />Labour should withdraw the whip from these MP's, thereby forcing reselections, even where they have managed to have got through the trigger ballots. These scabs are not going to come back to a principled position, and labour needs to start showing some principle and discipline itself if it is going to have any chance of winning the election when it comes.<br /><br />That means a clear commitment to revoke Article 50 as the only way of bringing the Brexit nightmare to an end. Otherwise it simply drags on for at least a decade. It means Labour committing to reentry if by any chance Johnson takes us out, for the same reason. It means we need a General Election Now, fought on that basis, and for a progressive social-democratic agenda for Europe.Boffyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08157650969929097569noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-20867688428449142202019-10-24T07:44:56.550+01:002019-10-24T07:44:56.550+01:00The only reason a Labour MP can support a Tory Bre...The only reason a Labour MP can support a Tory Brexit is because they care more about their careers than their constituents. <br /><br />Although I have always opposed Leave, I can see a principled argument for respecting the referendum result. This is not it.<br /><br />The next GE will be fought solely on Brexit. Flint et al may save their skin, but will be Labour only in name. Without a Lexiter Labour leader they would have already have had the whip removed and should have been bunged out of the party.<br /><br />Interestingly, Labour does not want an election now, or ever really, given its awful polling. It wants to string out Tory chaos for as long as possible, although this does not do much to improve its own polling as voters also blame Labour for prolonging the pain. <br /><br />It's a sort of death spiral, really. Two political parties past their sell-by-date locked in a deadly downward embrace. Grimly fascinating... <br /><br />Given this, No deal still may be on the table for a parliament unable to decide or go to the electorate. The Freudian 'return of the monster' - the inevitable price a dysfunctional nation has to pay for suppressing reality for the past... 70 years? <br />Speedynoreply@blogger.com