tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post2927504062696637246..comments2024-03-29T09:14:53.583+00:00Comments on All That Is Solid ...: Tommy on the TellyPhilhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06298147857234479278noreply@blogger.comBlogger31125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-22573136799511217062009-01-08T00:24:00.000+00:002009-01-08T00:24:00.000+00:00No my never Philip - because to my knowledge you h...No my never Philip - because to my knowledge you have never called me a fucking bitch, a cunt, a witch, a liar, You have never stood up and booed and jeered when I was accused of trying to kill Tommy's wife and unborn child. You have never assaulted my partner in the street or accuse me and others of being in the pay of the Murdoch Press. You have not colluded, lied or accused me of monstrous things - on that basis I would quite happily smile, wave or say hello. I am not totally hard line on these things - indeed I am quite moderate. Indeed to quote Dave Nellist "I am an moderate who refuses to live on my knees".<BR/><BR/>Viva la revolution!Ms Chiefhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01488172624713157756noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-63793834040818102152009-01-07T17:45:00.000+00:002009-01-07T17:45:00.000+00:00Does that mean I'll get a withering look if I come...Does that mean I'll get a withering look if I come up and say hello at a demo or something? ;)Philhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06298147857234479278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-35614918236855295562009-01-06T21:00:00.000+00:002009-01-06T21:00:00.000+00:00Tommy's speech from 2003 was good - that's the poi...Tommy's speech from 2003 was good - that's the point he's good at things like that, he's a great agitator, but he needs to be accountable and democratic too. We didn't fall out with him on the basis that his speech giving etc had got a bit rusty!! FFS!<BR/><BR/>No there is no hint of defrosting relations - not from me anyway I enjoy practicing my dirty looks at any squalidarity member who tries to talk to me, so they don't have to avoid me they know better. I even give daggers to weaker (and with less resolve) members of SSP who are found smiling, waving or talking to the Squalids.<BR/><BR/>However saying all that of course you have to talk to some of them (I have a list of them who I would never speak to even if we were the last people on the earth!) - Palestine, trade union, asylum seekers etc. But I don't do small talk or smiling!!!!<BR/><BR/>I think Tommy's game plan is to come across as boring as possible so in the future people will say he's too boring to have done this, that, the other thing.Ms Chiefhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01488172624713157756noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-3756589063171320012009-01-06T10:22:00.000+00:002009-01-06T10:22:00.000+00:00Yep, I saw that clip of TS soapboxing as well Phil...Yep, I saw that clip of TS soapboxing as well Phil.<BR/><BR/>From the response he got from his speech, I think he's starting a Solidarity Branch in the CBB household with Coolio, Tina and Terry.Imposs1904https://www.blogger.com/profile/04043116442576404667noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-73489041903791317642009-01-06T10:13:00.000+00:002009-01-06T10:13:00.000+00:00I thought Tommy was all right last night with his ...I thought Tommy was all right last night with his agitational speech. He was able to slip in a little bit of politics. Controversial!<BR/><BR/>Cat, out of interest, is there any hint of a defrosting of relations between comrades on both sides on the everyday activity/"street" level? Do Solidarity people try and make a swift escape if you start talking to them on a demo or whatever?Philhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06298147857234479278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-81718246006635357652009-01-05T22:38:00.000+00:002009-01-05T22:38:00.000+00:00Thanks Cat.And yes - it's extra-ordinarily dull, a...Thanks Cat.<BR/><BR/>And yes - it's extra-ordinarily dull, and I can normally get into that sort of thing... it might perk up you never know.<BR/><BR/>I saw TS talking about jail and he even made that sound boring... I mean he's got the gift of the gab when he wants so I do think he's deliberately holding back in case he makes a complete idiot of himself (insert joke).Jim Jeppshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17410387006098326671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-38865761441775488352009-01-05T22:31:00.000+00:002009-01-05T22:31:00.000+00:00Tommy I believe was elected on the CC in the late ...Tommy I believe was elected on the CC in the late 80s and remained on until SML no longer was on the CC and SP/Militant Labour re-organised and set up the National Committe, later SML went onto the Internation Executive Committe where I think it was either Alan McCombes, Frances Curran and/or Philip Stott. <BR/><BR/>I agree Jim it won't necessary be a disaster for him but I think many of his sychophantic pals will see that bhe is more interested in himself, fame and fortune. Spoke to one of his most excited followers tonight on a Palestine demo who said what he is doing is beyond the pale. He's not in anyone's control.<BR/><BR/>Due to subjudice I won't repeat what I said, SWP members in Scotlaqnd are saying "its a disappointment". So for me that's enough.<BR/><BR/>I stopped watching it last night because it was too boring!!!!Ms Chiefhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01488172624713157756noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-10240604759866035812009-01-05T22:10:00.000+00:002009-01-05T22:10:00.000+00:00Cat: just curious - when did Tommy join the CC? I ...Cat: just curious - when did Tommy join the CC? I thought he only really rose up through the ranks during the poll tax, but my knowledge on this is limited.<BR/><BR/>I don't think we should assume it's going to be a disaster for TS. Frankly he's in danger of being far too boring from what I've seen so far - I suspect that means he's learned some lessons from his patron's mistakes.<BR/><BR/>It's a stupid idea - but it wont necessarily be as damaging (politically) as it was for Galloway - who did, after all, make a bit of a media niche for himself. Bless him.Jim Jeppshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17410387006098326671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-1984213728859035532009-01-05T19:51:00.000+00:002009-01-05T19:51:00.000+00:00Tommy was the Convenor of the SSP and on the SSP E...Tommy was the Convenor of the SSP and on the SSP Executive Committee.<BR/><BR/>Before that he was on the Central Committee of Militant up until the mid 90s.<BR/><BR/>Other than that I agree with you - the Tanned One tried to destroy the SSP and turned on his comrades and called them monstrous names and lied about them.<BR/><BR/>Derek hattan to my knowledge did not do this!Ms Chiefhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01488172624713157756noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-55945541542926572832009-01-05T18:06:00.000+00:002009-01-05T18:06:00.000+00:00Good point, Journeyman. It's also worth noting, ap...Good point, Journeyman. It's also worth noting, apart from MM's account above, that leaderships of the far left in this country have tended not to get themselves into the limelight. Even Alan Woods, a man definitely not going short in the ego department, is content *just* to appear on Venezuelan TV.<BR/><BR/>The only one that springs to mind is Tariq Ali, but he's done well to reinvent himself as a stalwart of the BBC/Guardian commentariat. I don't think we will be seeing him in a bodystocking, phew!Philhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06298147857234479278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-7239091755965722262009-01-05T17:46:00.000+00:002009-01-05T17:46:00.000+00:00Tommy has been incorporated into the spectacle.As ...Tommy has been incorporated into the spectacle.<BR/>As the situationists told you he would - more than fifty years ago!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-21843710475341801812009-01-05T15:27:00.000+00:002009-01-05T15:27:00.000+00:00Phil - I was around in the Derek Hatton era. There...Phil - I was around in the Derek Hatton era. <BR/><BR/>There are similarities with Tommy but also important differences - Derek honestly stated 'I fought he system and the system won' and has never (to my knowledge) come out against old comrades.<BR/><BR/>One thing to remember is that neither Derek or Tommy were not actually in 'leadership positions' as such - they were public figures. Circumstances (and yes personalities) throw some people into the limelight and they are not always the best equipped to deal with it. The history of the labour movement is full of such examples.<BR/><BR/>Have you noticed how ironic it is that those who are most critical of the Democratic-Centralist model are also the first to assume that these public figures should have / could have been ruled by their parties with a military-like party discipline ?<BR/><BR/>journeymanAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-23239532228148220042009-01-05T10:06:00.000+00:002009-01-05T10:06:00.000+00:00Charlie, much of it has to do with the decentralis...Charlie, much of it has to do with the decentralised nature of the Greens and the fact that, unlike much of the Marxist left, the Green party is just one field of activity its members can choose from, in pick n mix fashion. As you know our activism is focused through the medium of our parties, so differences between trends in the respective types of organisations play themselves out in different ways. I should be writing something about communist organisation in connection with the last chapter in <I>History and Class Consciousness</I> in the next week or so.<BR/><BR/>Mod, don't know about you, but I'd much rather watch Jade, Kerry Katona, Peter Andre and Paris Hilton sitting around. It'd probably be a lot less grim!Philhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06298147857234479278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-36770693268522202812009-01-05T02:58:00.000+00:002009-01-05T02:58:00.000+00:00what about Degsy (I remember him, too much 'hail f...what about Degsy (I remember him, too much 'hail fellow well met', etc), Tommy and David Icke having a Green-Left-Sun Tan get together? it could be a TV special?<BR/><BR/>maybe invite John Rees for a laugh?<BR/><BR/>that quartet should be worth hours of TV entertainment!ModernityBloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06354254639321208955noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-24567835137504297092009-01-04T22:47:00.000+00:002009-01-04T22:47:00.000+00:00Interesting you mention the Greens. They recently ...Interesting you mention the Greens. They recently voted to have a leader - big issue for them, but there appears to have been little acrimony and the matter has been settled in an admirable fashion. Also, there's an anti-capitalist grouping w/in the party called Green Left.<BR/><BR/>Apologies if everyone knows this already, but I wonder what it is the Greens are doing right in that social democrats, eco-socialists, and Marxists are able to work together within a relatively small party?<BR/><BR/>Just thought - David Icke rather spoils this whole trouble-free leadership thesis I've just put together, doesn't it?Charlie Markshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12770820928636046622noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-8967916692943628772009-01-04T18:39:00.000+00:002009-01-04T18:39:00.000+00:00Cat, don't most lefties go through that phase in t...Cat, don't most lefties go through that phase in the full flush of their conversion? I certainly did, even though I didn't have a party to recruit anyone too! Anyway, I've always liked Terry and he was v good on The Word. It just wouldn't have worked without him. And at 49, he's looking v good!<BR/><BR/>Mike, you're partly right IMO. The smaller the group, the more these sorts of things matter. But there's more to it. I'll be looking at this issue in a future <I>History and Class Consciousness</I> post (which I've only just finished. Only took me about 5 months!)Philhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06298147857234479278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-3923162130101195762009-01-04T18:16:00.000+00:002009-01-04T18:16:00.000+00:00I think that small political parties of any catego...I think that small political parties of any category tend to have two characteristics.<BR/><BR/>First, personality driven leadership - which is problematic, but the alternative is the Green party which fails to make very much impact at all. <BR/><BR/>Second, factionalism and splitting into constituent parts, perhaps because ideology and personality together encourages itMerseymikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07231364271812168188noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-39437695953943341872009-01-04T15:59:00.000+00:002009-01-04T15:59:00.000+00:00Was at a swaray (is that how you spell it?) last n...Was at a swaray (is that how you spell it?) last night and a very credible source said Terry Christian was at college in 1979 with him and he was in the SWP and was a total hack - who believed he could convert everyone and pure berated everyone he met however was good fun in other ways.<BR/><BR/>On Derek Hatton - I used to be told the same, I think the difference with Hatton is that whilst he went on to be a minor celebrity selling Sieko watches and having a radio show he did not try maliciously to destroy the Militant and do things due to sub judice I cannot write.<BR/><BR/>Tam the Bam will be in a gorilla suit - mark my words!Ms Chiefhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01488172624713157756noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-5871928056009674732009-01-04T12:50:00.000+00:002009-01-04T12:50:00.000+00:00Darren, google images is the blogger's friend. The...Darren, google images is the blogger's friend. <BR/><BR/>The photo was a promo for his Edinburgh fringe show. It's on the second page when you do a search on his name.<BR/><BR/>Charlie, thanks for putting that image in my head. <BR/><BR/>I'm not sure celebrity would undergo much of a change in the current crisis, except perhaps the financial rewards won't be as obscene. I'm sure an examination of the Hollywood system during the great depression would give us an idea of how I more developed system of celebrity could be affected.Philhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06298147857234479278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-5495595349666020462009-01-04T02:02:00.000+00:002009-01-04T02:02:00.000+00:00PS: can't wait to see Tommy in a cat suit. Yum, yu...PS: can't wait to see Tommy in a cat suit. Yum, yum!Charlie Markshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12770820928636046622noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-12285994393980340302009-01-04T02:01:00.000+00:002009-01-04T02:01:00.000+00:00I don't know about Terry being a former member of ...I don't know about Terry being a former member of the WRP, but he is certainly a socialist.<BR/><BR/>And we must remember that becoming a celebrity at this particular time (the greatest crisis of capitalism since the Great Depression) isn't going to have the same rewards or consciousness-altering effects.Charlie Markshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12770820928636046622noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-62279447182993918492009-01-04T00:34:00.000+00:002009-01-04T00:34:00.000+00:00" . . . that when someone has done as much for the...<I>" . . . that when someone has done as much for the labour movement as bro Hatton did, then it's ok to criticise him. "</I><BR/><BR/>I hope he or she was told to piss up a rope every time they used that line. ;-)<BR/><BR/>PS - Where'd you get that picture of Tommy from? Love it.<BR/><BR/>PPS - Someone over at Urban 75 claims Terry Christian used to be in the WRP. I always wondered how he got that Word gig. Vanessa Redgrave must have a word in Jeremy Issacs ear: <I>'You want more Chekhov? Give Terry a presenting job on a Friday night.'</I>Imposs1904https://www.blogger.com/profile/04043116442576404667noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-8147985531700726712009-01-03T23:01:00.000+00:002009-01-03T23:01:00.000+00:00Deggsy was before my time, Darren. Well, I do vagu...Deggsy was before my time, Darren. Well, I do vaguely remember him on the news and in the papers when I were a sprog.<BR/><BR/>A comrade who was active in Militant in Liverpool at the time was told by more than one full timer (long since departed, AFAIK) that when someone has done as much for the labour movement as bro Hatton did, then it's ok to criticise him. Certainly not a position I would ever endorse!<BR/><BR/>Sorry Derek, I was unable to make any of the demonstrations. I do have something bubbling under on Gaza.Philhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06298147857234479278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-38345719582612309952009-01-03T21:57:00.000+00:002009-01-03T21:57:00.000+00:00I don't like to be too Leninist about this and it ...I don't like to be too Leninist about this and it is a great post, but there is a war going on and we need to be doing our blog o bit to combat all the bloodshed.<BR/><BR/>Did you make the demonstration today?Derek Wallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05462511891409913195noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-29663684825994297422009-01-03T19:09:00.000+00:002009-01-03T19:09:00.000+00:00Nifty bit of footwork there, Phil.A post on Millie...Nifty bit of footwork there, Phil.<BR/><BR/>A post on Millies and the bigging up of leaders into celebrities and not a sniff of a mention of Degsy.<BR/><BR/>A career in the Westminster village awaits. ;-)Imposs1904https://www.blogger.com/profile/04043116442576404667noreply@blogger.com