tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post217576739945767106..comments2024-03-27T09:14:27.496+00:00Comments on All That Is Solid ...: The End of Progress?Philhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06298147857234479278noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-1111765052264023802017-06-26T19:57:36.567+01:002017-06-26T19:57:36.567+01:00@George,
It is pretty meaningless to talk of Labo...@George,<br /><br />It is pretty meaningless to talk of Labour being for or against the miners, other than in terms of culture and sentiment. In office, Labour governments pursued the same broad policy as Conservatives, namely managed decline, which kicked in as early as 1920. It was also a policy largely accepted by the NUM who, to take one example, put up no resistance to the widespread pit closures and halving of employment that was overseen by the Wilson governments of the 1960s.<br /><br />Though the miners gained a reputation for militancy in the 70s, this was largely the result of pay disputes, not closures, and the product of wage erosion relative to other sectors. 1979 marked the end of the consensus with the Tories committing to a deliberate shift in energy supply specifically to neutralise the NUM's ability to hinder broader industrial rationalistion (e.g. by supporting steelworkers).<br /><br />Even if the NUM had "won" in 1984, the outcome would have been much the same, albeit at a perhaps more gradual pace. The coal industry was always doomed simply because of the UK's difficult geology and the increase in both alternative coal suppliers and alternative energy sources. The likely difference between what happened and any counterfactual would be greater state intervention to help mining towns, rather than just leaving it to the market. <br /><br />A more sympathetic (or consensual) government than Thatcher's might have done a better job in this regard, however it's hard to believe it would have been that much better. Labour's 1987 manifesto talked positively of coal reserves and miner's workplace rights, but it gave no hostages to fortune on closures and was already banging the drum on environmental protection. If Kinnock had got to Number 10, it would simply have marked a return of the old policy of managed decline.David Timoneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03568348438980023320noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-60295023234255209872017-06-26T13:56:06.600+01:002017-06-26T13:56:06.600+01:00Neither. A nuanced, holistic approach based on cur...Neither. A nuanced, holistic approach based on current emissions, scientific info, energy program, minimizing disruption.<br />The dichotomy posed is rather a crude one.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05691103945769080639noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-15886810088221088672017-06-26T07:17:32.466+01:002017-06-26T07:17:32.466+01:00Boffy,
If the miners had somehow managed to win i...Boffy,<br /><br />If the miners had somehow managed to win in 1984, could the Labour Party have ended up as a party of climate change deniers, as the Republicans did in the United States? Or would the Labour Party have ended up turning against the miners eventually (most likely in the late '90s) in the name of fighting climate change?George Cartyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12170378024031141482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-20528285965236684492017-06-25T22:29:37.503+01:002017-06-25T22:29:37.503+01:00Progress are a gerrymandering organization perpetu...Progress are a gerrymandering organization perpetuating the extreme right wing 'centre' and ensuring the drift continues.<br /><br />These are clearly not their stated aims and for a few perhaps not a conscious aim.<br /><br />This may sound rather simple minded, nevertheless it is correct :-)<br />Badenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01230437513468790728noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-58238794253106871672017-06-25T19:51:41.968+01:002017-06-25T19:51:41.968+01:00If you squint really hard, Peter Cunnah looks like...If you squint really hard, Peter Cunnah looks like Emmanuel Macron.<br /><br />On a more serious note, Progress probably owe more to the US DLC than the Fabians, so their marginalisation should perhaps been seen in a wider context than just the Corbynisation of Labour.David Timoneyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03568348438980023320noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-5141560702162152102017-06-25T16:56:27.186+01:002017-06-25T16:56:27.186+01:00"New Labour and Progress would never have hap..."New Labour and Progress would never have happened had the industrial politics of the 1980s played out differently, had bastions of working class power in the mines and the nationalised industries successfully held out against Thatcher's assaults. History would certainly have taken a very different turn."<br /><br />Absolutely right, which is why Kinnock and the soft left's role in undermining the Miners Strike, of preventing the linking up of that struggle with that of Labour Councils fighting Thatcher's cuts and other attacks on local democracy, and their witchhunt against left-wing activists not only played a part in destroying a large part of the Labour Party during that period, but also played the necessary role in ensuring the endurance of Thatcherism in the 1980's and 90's, and its continuance in anotrher form udner Blair/Brown.<br />Boffyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08157650969929097569noreply@blogger.com