tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post1614697392619153029..comments2024-03-29T09:14:53.583+00:00Comments on All That Is Solid ...: Marxism and Michael Jackson's DeathPhilhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06298147857234479278noreply@blogger.comBlogger26125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-80849071886671288422009-06-28T13:05:34.042+01:002009-06-28T13:05:34.042+01:00Before the tits came, in answer to your question, ...Before the tits came, in answer to your question, they were both terrible but the terrible game edges it for nostalgia alone.Daniel Hoffmann-Gillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02531802987223516482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-33239737802859850662009-06-28T12:37:53.559+01:002009-06-28T12:37:53.559+01:00Of course, lol. We try and avoid too much super se...Of course, lol. We try and avoid too much super seriousness here!Philhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06298147857234479278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-77628647734870121432009-06-28T11:28:48.057+01:002009-06-28T11:28:48.057+01:00You are joking?You are joking?patsyhnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-5328493680870490122009-06-27T22:31:29.238+01:002009-06-27T22:31:29.238+01:00Humour is a bourgeois distraction from the class s...Humour is a bourgeois distraction from the class struggle :PPhilhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06298147857234479278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-61937887513076240862009-06-27T22:00:05.015+01:002009-06-27T22:00:05.015+01:00Oops! Great sense of humour, too.Oops! Great sense of humour, too.patsyhnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-22701445157359505202009-06-27T21:54:39.725+01:002009-06-27T21:54:39.725+01:00Patsyh and Jackson, I don't give a shit about ...Patsyh and Jackson, I don't give a shit about appearing "clever". But I do care about how things work and it happens a certain set of ideas with a particular kind of vocabulary remain the most powerful way of analysing culture. If you don't like my offerings there are plenty of bloggers who revel in their ignorance - feel free to check them out.Philhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06298147857234479278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-20479937150237007282009-06-27T21:37:40.402+01:002009-06-27T21:37:40.402+01:00Propping up hegemony of capitalist whatsit. Am I i...Propping up hegemony of capitalist whatsit. Am I in a timewarp? I used to talk a bit like this in the 80's,until I realized abstract argument can prove whatever you want it to, eg, like in religion.<br />Agree with Jackson 4, pseudo-intellectual<br />"friends...will mine profitably.." ! You obviously have a great sense of ironypatsyhnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-67533977795539276802009-06-27T20:22:37.375+01:002009-06-27T20:22:37.375+01:00All these debates about Michael Jackson are missin...All these debates about Michael Jackson are missing the point. What was better, Moonwalker the film or Moonwalker the game?Philhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06298147857234479278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-53730121785486342322009-06-27T19:14:32.294+01:002009-06-27T19:14:32.294+01:00CWLER USA:
I think it really is a matter of opini...CWLER USA:<br /><br />I think it really is a matter of opinion regarding which of the two is the best dancer and singer. I think JB set a lot of the rules for MJ, whereas JB was not realyl much of a singer, more of a tool of the rhythm; MJ has a good range in comparison to JB but as I said, all a matter fo opinion and KB invented much of modern music with funk and of course, what became hip-hop.Daniel Hoffmann-Gillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02531802987223516482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-46633113626929477492009-06-27T18:32:04.720+01:002009-06-27T18:32:04.720+01:00Jackson is the opium of the masses?
He was a very...Jackson is the opium of the masses?<br /><br />He was a very good dancer who sang other people's songs and made record companies a lot of money?<br /><br />never got it myself.<br /><br />don't over analyse this sort of thing - it's rather pseudo-intellectual and trite. And DOESN'T make you appear clever.The Jackson Fournoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-86599250902620031662009-06-27T18:26:53.716+01:002009-06-27T18:26:53.716+01:00Hello James, not Fosse I'm afraid, as I said, ...Hello James, not Fosse I'm afraid, as I said, a proto moon walk is part of any tap classes you'll do and dates fromt he 40s, James Brown doing a version in the late 50s and early 60s is all over YouTube.Daniel Hoffmann-Gillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02531802987223516482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-87936886508641817492009-06-27T18:04:34.546+01:002009-06-27T18:04:34.546+01:00The moonwalk appeared in a much more Michael-esque...The moonwalk appeared in a much more Michael-esque way well before JB's fame. The late 1930s to early 40s are the first recorded sightings. JB's moonwalk was more of a continuous sliding side-step. <br /><br />JB's dancing was far less innovative than Michael's, although JB was a much better singer. For one, JB's talents were intended mainly for one dancer only whereas Michael could lead a troupe or stand alone. The dancing contributions go well beyond the moonwalk. I would much rather listen to a Brown album than a Jackson one, but Michael was the better dancer. A debate I never thought I'd have on a Marxist blog.<br /><br />As for the paedophilia, I think he probably did it, and he should've gone into custody for it. It appears to be a classic case of a sexually abused child growing up to become the victimizer; doesn't always happen, but the celebrity narcissism wouldn't have helpe the situation. However, that doesn't make the aspects of the celebrity industry and its most important products irrelevant to Marxists.<br /><br />Again: anyone familiar with academia know about a recent work relating Rank and Becker's theories of "death terror" to modern celebrity? I think it would be interesting...<br /><br />Off to sell the paper.CWIer USAnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-82636544690209232442009-06-27T16:07:08.412+01:002009-06-27T16:07:08.412+01:00gray - if youwant to think about dodgy great chess...gray - if youwant to think about dodgy great chessplayers, try Alekhine:<br />http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Lab/7378/nazi.htm<br /><br />You should probably have learned from Bill Hartston that the only correct response to the greatest is "Aah,Fisher".<br />I saw MJ on TV with the Jackson Five over 30 years ago, and disliked him then, and realised only a major scandal would prevent him dominating music my whole life.skidmarxnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-41658185057338402172009-06-27T14:10:35.477+01:002009-06-27T14:10:35.477+01:00I don't think Paddy's language is particul...I don't think Paddy's language is particularly helpful. Remember, we're socialists, not the BNP. It's also worth remembering the case against Michael Jackson were very much unproven - it seems for some the mere accusation of paedophilia is enough. The discussion on this over at Socialist Unity has been very good.<br /><br />Re: topical jokes - I don't know. But it's well known we use humour to cope with new situations. We're all plugged into popular culture and the death of one of its most recognisable icons has instantly changed it, whether we gave a fig about Jackson when he as alive or not.Philhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06298147857234479278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-32630864755907271802009-06-27T10:45:06.623+01:002009-06-27T10:45:06.623+01:00Asking around last night it appears that people we...Asking around last night it appears that people were recieving Jackson jokes by text yesterday morning before they even knew he had died.Most of the jokes seem to be about his alleged paedophilia<br /><br />Has anyone studied the topical joke phenomena ?.Tobireghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01509999169497530229noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-15831150429408672472009-06-27T00:54:22.949+01:002009-06-27T00:54:22.949+01:00I was playing internet chess when the news broke. ...I was playing internet chess when the news broke. Within 5 minutes the jokes had started on the chat channel.<br /><br />As a chess player, I grew up trying to improve my play by studying the games of Robert James "Bobby" Fischer. The man was utterly bonkers by the time of his death; and in his later years, he was notorious for his antisemitism. He famously called a radio station on 9/11, where he was ecstatic at the news and went on to call Jews criminal and that they should be rounded up. Needless to say, it is possible to take pleasure from the chess he played and detest the person.<br /><br />Phil - with regard to perspective, and still on a chess theme, Jose Raul Capablanca was one of 1920s most popular personalities. He was so good that he seemed unbeatable in his prime. Furthermore, he had all the privilages of a Cuban diplomat and good Latino looks to boot. Apparantly he was as popular with the ladies as Rudolf Valentino. In some ways, things don't change. Any thoughts?grayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05826263127028112194noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-10830573773715287712009-06-26T19:11:46.459+01:002009-06-26T19:11:46.459+01:00DHG - Bob Fosse seemingly invented the moonwalk in...DHG - Bob Fosse seemingly invented the moonwalk in the mid-'70s. See here:<br /><br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUlEBhGgEe0<br /><br />Still, Michael was a marvelous performer and a firm contender for best dancer.Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12666825900024856116noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-66159619993153078472009-06-26T17:39:02.462+01:002009-06-26T17:39:02.462+01:00Agree with Tobireg, there seems to be people who p...Agree with Tobireg, there seems to be people who pride themselves on making nasty jokes up.<br /><br />So it goes.Daniel Hoffmann-Gillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02531802987223516482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-45740502888229438722009-06-26T16:31:09.583+01:002009-06-26T16:31:09.583+01:00Excellent post, Phil. I suppose that one aspect of...Excellent post, Phil. I suppose that one aspect of the death of Jackson, and one of some sociological interest, that we can now expect to see will be a flood of Jackson death 'jokes' of a racist, sexist and homophobic nature doing the rounds by text and eMail.Tobireghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01509999169497530229noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-63812622253636549452009-06-26T15:52:20.431+01:002009-06-26T15:52:20.431+01:00A few points regarding CW USA homage:
James Brown...A few points regarding CW USA homage:<br /><br />James Brown was far better at dancing and far move innovative, MJ took much of his work and added but the core of the ideas came from JB and indeed JB came up with the moonwalk first back in the 50s and like most dance moves, has its roots in tap.<br /><br />Perspective is required.Daniel Hoffmann-Gillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02531802987223516482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-64423946862311168392009-06-26T15:21:01.913+01:002009-06-26T15:21:01.913+01:00The greatest pop dancer in the history of the worl...The greatest pop dancer in the history of the world. The Soul Train appearance where he unveiled the moonwalk is etched into my memory as a childhood TV moment second only to Larry Bird’s steal in the 1986 NBA playoffs.<br /><br />A tragedy of American celebrity culture to shocking proportions. The lack of touch with reality, the magnification of childhood insecurities, the self-obsession and attempt to define himself as a “hero” are all symptoms of a sick celebrity culture. This gives talented people an aura of “otherworldliness,” never challenging them to grow up or deal with people on an even playing field.<br /><br />Michael was an extreme example due to the severity of his childhood problems and the racial oppression that made him ashamed of his modest background. This combined with the ridiculous level of his celebrity.<br /><br />A question for the more academically inclined: is there a book or article on how Ernest Becker and Otto Rank's theories of the "Denial of Death" relate to modern celebrity culture?<br /><br />Paddy: Michael Jackson probably did some awful things to children, but this is a complex situation worth analyzing. Just as the Lindsey strikes were more complex than just BJ4BW...CWIer USAhttp://socialistalternative.orgnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-49358183924662600852009-06-26T13:11:00.321+01:002009-06-26T13:11:00.321+01:00Great piece, which I enjoyed - especially the poin...Great piece, which I enjoyed - especially the points on contemporary celebrity. Interesting question is whether we can separate the 'art' from the 'artist' - I can't do that with Gary Glitter (such as his 'art' goes...), but I seem to be able to with Jackson, though that might have been different if the case against MJ was clearly proved. My own quick thoughts on MJ's death <a href="http://londonmasalaandchips.blogspot.com/2009/06/rip-micheal-jackson.html" rel="nofollow"> here.</a>Ravenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03782834377756702234noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-71456989529095140842009-06-26T11:13:33.310+01:002009-06-26T11:13:33.310+01:00Let us not mourn the passing of a nonce, he only g...Let us not mourn the passing of a nonce, he only got away with it because of his fame.paddy garcianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-23406922568830905052009-06-26T10:30:23.888+01:002009-06-26T10:30:23.888+01:00He's not made a decent record for over 20 year...He's not made a decent record for over 20 years, seriously, more important things are going down in groove down than the sad passing of a once great pop star.Daniel Hoffmann-Gillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02531802987223516482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-29552705340096994562009-06-26T09:30:04.647+01:002009-06-26T09:30:04.647+01:00You are quite right, Charlie. Jackson was a comple...You are quite right, Charlie. Jackson was a complex and multi-faceted figure, a complexity that was reflected in the appeal of his celebrity. With more media coverage to come - not least what will no doubt be a most lavish funeral - something tells me this won't be the only time I'll be writing about Michael Jackson.Philhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06298147857234479278noreply@blogger.com