tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post8623787043068508170..comments2024-03-18T19:21:49.666+00:00Comments on All That Is Solid ...: Why I Voted for Jeremy CorbynPhilhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06298147857234479278noreply@blogger.comBlogger49125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-13737438392900047832016-09-18T12:38:33.139+01:002016-09-18T12:38:33.139+01:00Corbyn and McDonell are the wrong side of Scotland...Corbyn and McDonell are the wrong side of Scotland's very much active sectarian divide to have much effect in parts of this country, and the few of us that support Labour do not see much comfort in either of the leadership challengers. Reports in the Herald suggest that Glasgow is in total meltdown, open talk about a City Unionist alliance after next years local elections. With the deputy Scottish leader openly campaigning against the leader there will be a split, especially as Corbyn refuses to mention Dugdale by name, the conceited oaf. Not a nice man really and Smith is out of his depth. DD cancellation may be on the way. Think I'll stick to collecting vinyl.jim mcleannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-65018337457965042132016-09-11T22:12:43.138+01:002016-09-11T22:12:43.138+01:00«at present, all evidence suggests such a party wo...«at present, all evidence suggests such a party would consist of hundreds of thousands of members each piled up in London, Bristol and Brighton, and similar areas»<br /><br />That is indeed an interesting point. Coincides with the university towns where "Remain" won. But there are reports of Corbyn being popular in many traditional areas, look at the map of CLPs who have declared for Corbyn.<br /><br />Anyhow New Labour (and not only) campaigned against AV. Too bad for that. FPTP works too well at making median voters win elections, and the median voter, which is not the median citizen, is typically a tory-ish small-property rentier in some affluent market town.<br /><br />«there's certainly a case against the PLP, there's absolutely none in favour of Corbyn as an actual individual»<br /><br />What about "popilar" and "good campaigner" and "motivating"?<br /><br />But also what if he is just good enough? That he just advocates the policies most members advocate? Not everybody is a managerialist and thinks that only magic leaders give victory.<br /><br />«The only real reason is because McDonnell and Abbott»<br /><br />Decades have passed for both Corbyn and McDonnell, office seems to have made them more cautious, and McDonnel currently looks like a moderate hattersleyte like Corbyn. But Abbott seems to me just a tiresome "identity politics" politically-correct SJW.<br /><br />If you remember, right-wingers nominated Corbyn for the 2015 election precisely he seemed like the most unelectably extreme, other-worldly candidate from the Labour wing of the Labour party. What a surprise that he has been.<br />Blissexnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-88829050704471031852016-09-11T20:57:39.358+01:002016-09-11T20:57:39.358+01:00The piling up isn't confined exclusively to th...The piling up isn't confined exclusively to the big cities. Locally, for instance, the membership is much higher in Labour held marginal Newcastle-under-Lyme than any of the Stoke CLPs. I wouldn't be surprised if the same is true of local safe Tory seats like the Moorlands and Stafford now.<br /><br />As for Corbyn, I'll be writing something critical on him as soon as the election is over. But 'why Corbyn?' is a very interesting question, and one that deserves some thought ... Philhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06298147857234479278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-57689726349744371532016-09-11T20:31:21.214+01:002016-09-11T20:31:21.214+01:00The problem with a three-million-member party is t...The problem with a three-million-member party is that, at present, all evidence suggests such a party would consist of hundreds of thousands of members each piled up in London, Bristol and Brighton, and similar areas, whilst the small and medium towns in the Midlands which actually contain the marginal seats (yes, including motherfucking Nuneaton) still continue to spread as thin as ever. I just checked the online presence of my own nearest CLPs, and if Corbynmania has hit the region, it's very much by stealth.<br /><br />The OP also dodges around the fact that, whilst there's certainly a case against the PLP, there's absolutely none in favour of Corbyn as an actual individual - he's no policy wonk, man-manager, rhetorician, spin bowler, brand developer, clean slate or ideological intellectual. Blair, Brown and Miliband were at least some of these things during at least some of their leadership, and yet Corbyn has an abject lack of any of these talents, so why this particular man? The only real reason is because McDonnell and Abbott would offend the electorate even more.Lidl_Janusnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-84151282411596644772016-09-10T19:05:07.426+01:002016-09-10T19:05:07.426+01:00@Paul Canning
Not heard anything about those Smit...@Paul Canning<br /><br /><i>Not heard anything about those Smith comments and Twitter Corbyn supporters would surely have brought them to my attention.</i><br /><br />Well, I guess if no one Twittered it at you then it can't have happened, can it?<br /><br />Except, of course, it did.Makhnohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07541376002189192898noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-80616107177045650252016-09-10T17:57:05.883+01:002016-09-10T17:57:05.883+01:00«any leader worthy of the title will have spent ti...«any leader worthy of the title will have spent time reaching out to people who may not be his core support, but are prepared to give him the time of day.»<br /><br />He has created a very mixed cabinet, with a majority of people sceptical of him. He has even started speaking the party line even when it was different from his preferred line, except where it conflicted with his principled, and then he refused to speak against it, or declared a free vote about it. As a leader he has made a very big change from the times where as an individual felt freer to speak for himself.<br /><br />«I'd say more than 100 of those who signed the no confidence vote had been prepared to give Corbyn a chance but had become disillusioned by the summer.»<br /><br />So merely "disillusioned" people instead of waiting and seeing or letting someone go ahead start attacking their own party leader, who has been doing fairly well at the poll, just at the time when the tories are in a massive shambles, and the Chilcot report is about to be published. Not only that, but over 60 of them who had been given shadow-cabinet posts by the leader being "disillusioned" resign very publicly attacking their leader, following a spin-doctored schedule. and none of those 100 MPs speak out against that. That's quite amazing for "disillusion" :-).<br /><br />Consider, and it is fortunate that such a point of reference exists, the behaviour of Andy Burnham, the second in the previous leadership contest, and likely at least partly disillusioned with J Corbyn too, if only because of that; he wrote on 2016-06-26:<br /><br />«It is for our members to decide who leads our Party & 10 months ago they gave Jeremy Corbyn a resounding mandate. I respect that & them»<br /><br />He has not resigned as shadow Home secretary, he has not attacked Corbyn even if he has not been enthusiastic for him either. At times I suspect that Corbyn thinks that his job is to ensure a very mild nudge to the left for Labour, and pave the way for a successor that is prepared to live with that, and he may be thinking of Burnham.<br /><br />BTW, I just did a web search and found some amusing news:<br /><br />http://www.thenews.coop/106204/news/co-operatives/co-operative-party-backing-tony-lloyd-manchester-mayor-bid/<br />«On 3 June the three Labour candidates to be the Mayor of Greater Manchester attended a meeting with local Co-op Party members. After listening to the candidates, members voted to back Tony Lloyd, [ ... ] Also seeking to obtain the Labour Party’s nomination are Ivan Lewis, MP for Bury South and Andy Burnham, shadow home secretary and MP for Leigh. Mr Lewis served as a minister in the Blair and Brown governments. A member of the Co-op Party, Mr Burnham was involved in setting up Supporters Direct.»<br /><br />But then as we know:<br /><br />www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/aug/09/andy-<br />burnham-selected-labours-candidate-manchester-mayor<br />«Burnham won 51% of a vote from party members in the region, beating the area’s police and crime commissioner and interim mayor, Tony Lloyd (29%), and the MP for Bury South, Ivan Lewis, who was a government minister under Tony Blair and Gordon Brown (19.8%).»<br /><br />Looks like he was considered too left wing by the members of his party, but not by the members of Labour.<br />Blissexnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-50830033045406001672016-09-10T17:31:31.090+01:002016-09-10T17:31:31.090+01:00«Much as Ed Miliband's appalling political pre...«Much as Ed Miliband's appalling political presentation led to an election loss, and therefore torpedoed the credibility of the soft left,»<br /><br />My guess is that leaders and even manifestos don't matter much, and believing that voters take much notice of leaders, manifestos or even the press is typical of the Westminster bubble, as those are the topics over which political hacks hold their jobs. And regardless E Milliband's presentation seemed fairly reasonable to me.<br /><br />In practice for several decades UK have always re-elected incumbent government parties unless they screwed up, and that so far has meant falling house prices. The legendary T Blair himself "charismatically" lost several million voters 1997-2007, mostly to abstention, but Labour only lost a parliamentary majority when house prices fell.<br /><br />Probably, but this is somewhat controversial, leaders and the press make *some* difference, in extreme cases worth up to some percentage points.<br /><br />As to «want Labour to revive social democracy for the 21st century» the alternative is not between "disaster" social-democratic Corbyn and "smooth" social-democratic X, because the mandelsonian PLP will never support a social-democratic X even if she were a smooth operator. They even attacked G Brown for being a far-left fool, and E Milliband for being a far-left fanatic, never mind "kenyan communist muslim" :-) J Corbyn. A very illustrative quote of a certain "New Conservatives" mindset, from the editor of the New Stateman:<br /><br />www.newstatesman.com/politics/2014/11/ed-miliband-s-problem-not-policy-tone-and-increasingly-he-seems-trapped<br />«People felt the system was rigged against them. But the financial crisis and the Great Recession had created a social-democratic moment. [ ... ] Miliband is very much an old-style Hampstead socialist. He doesn’t really understand the lower middle class or material aspiration. He doesn’t understand Essex Man or Woman. [ ... ] And he might have to accept before long – or the electorate will force him to – that Europe’s social-democratic moment, if it ever existed, is fading into the past.»<br /><br />Then my usual quote from L Price describing a strategy meeting among the top New Labour leadership in 1999-10-19:<br /><br />«Philip Gould analysed our problem very clearly. We don’t know what we are. Gordon wants us to be a radical progressive, movement, but wants us to keep our heads down on Europe. Peter [Mandelson] thinks that we are a quasi-Conservative Party but that we should stick our necks out on Europe.»<br />Blissexnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-42287048225988617862016-09-10T17:16:13.346+01:002016-09-10T17:16:13.346+01:00I never thought Corbyn should take the rap for the...I never thought Corbyn should take the rap for the Brexit vote. He actually made a really good speech at the start of the campaign, that talked to people like me who weren't enthusiastic but on balance preferred remain.<br /><br />Regarding the coup, even if one believes the conspiracy theory, the fact is that such coups don't happen unless a huge number of people are prepared to sign up for them. IDS, Redwood and co have been plotting coups since the day Thatcher was sacked, and they're probably plotting one against May as we speak - and don't get me started on Brown plotting against Blair (and Corbyn and McDonnell doing the same for that matter). Generally, coups don't happen because any leader worthy of the title will have spent time reaching out to people who may not be his core support, but are prepared to give him the time of day. I'd say more than 100 of those who signed the no confidence vote had been prepared to give Corbyn a chance but had become disillusioned by the summer.<br /><br /><br />Dave Chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11418208431136545980noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-46826310731172377322016-09-10T17:01:54.368+01:002016-09-10T17:01:54.368+01:00«'Why is he not attacking the Tories every day...«'Why is he not attacking the Tories every day, whose handling of Brexit would be funny if it wasn't so tragic?'<br />Good question. Mightn't it have something to do with the fact that he's having to face down a leadership challenge, perhaps?»<br /><br />The question is disgusting, and the answer is weak.<br /><br />A better question would be why there are dozens of New Labour MPs and members who spend a lot of their time attacking in often repulsive ways their party leader who is pro-worker and pro-remain instead of the tories who have an anti-worker and pro-leave government.<br /><br />And a better point about J Corbyn is that he is attacking the Tories in a straightforward way every time he has the opportunity, for example at his second question time:<br /><br />www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/07/brexit-means-never-having-to-say-youre-sorry-or-anything-at-all<br />«With Brexit uppermost in everyone’s minds and the government front benches struggling even to maintain the “Brexit means Brexit” line, Jeremy Corbyn asked the prime minister about the housing crisis.»<br /><br />Brexit right now is *irrelevant* outside the Westminster/press bubble, and the last thing that the Labour leader needs to do is to show the finger to the 37% of Labour voters who went "Leave" by obsessing about it like O Smith is doing.<br /><br />Housing instead is the true fulcrum of UK politics. If housing were less expensive perhaps many fewer lower-income people would have chosen "Leave", for example.<br /><br />PS O Smith is obsessing against Brexit, I think because he and his sponsors want to get rid of that 37% of unwelcome "bigot" labour voters, and attract the 42% of very welcome "conservatory-building class" tory voters who chose "Remain".<br />Blissexnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-87944718147438633602016-09-10T16:35:28.235+01:002016-09-10T16:35:28.235+01:00«The failed coup is an abject lesson in how not to...«The failed coup is an abject lesson in how not to go about one.»<br />«I agree we will never do coups as well as the Tories, and part of me is pleased about that. This was not a skilfully organised cut throat operation, it was a shambolic collapse brought about by desperation by those who took part.»<br /><br />The coup was very well organized, by professional spinmasters. It succeeded wildly in distracting from the tory mega-shambles, and in largely distracting from the publication of the Cholcot report.<br /><br />It was never designed to achieve election by members of a mandelsonian leader: as someone else has written on this page, O Smith seemed from the beginning a sacrificial candidate, which he probably would have been even if he had chances of winning.<br /><br />My impression is that the leadership challenge was designed to prove a point. That point is not that the membership cannot trust the mandelsonians, but that the mandelsonians cannot trust the membership. Therefore if the membership won't elect the "right" candidate, as Brecht suggested the mandelsonians will elect the "right" membership, that of the Co-operative party, as someone hinted.<br /><br />The project is to redesign english (not UK) politics with two major pro-business, pro-property parties, the Conservatives and Unionists that are for bigger rents and anti-EU, and the New Conservatives (I mean, New Co-operatives) for Europe that are for bigger rents and pro-EU.<br /><br />The opportunity seen by the mandelsonians is that 42% of Conservative voters are pro-EU, and many of them are ex-Liberal voters, and that after the Conservative and Unionists turned officially into a "Leave" party, many pro-EU business and property owners are prepared to bankroll an alternative.<br /><br />Relevant quotes:<br /><br />mainlymacro.blogspot.co.uk/2016/08/mutually-assured-destruction.html<br />«In 2015 business and finance were 100% behind the Conservatives. With the Brexit vote, and the campaign’s leading lights running the coming negotiations, that has fundamentally changed. [ ... ] With the Brexit vote what I would call the pro-European centre desperately wants an effective voice.»<br /><br />www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/09/co-operative-party-policies-distinct-labour-100-anniversary<br />«The party recently rejected speculation that it could be a vehicle for Labour MPs who oppose Jeremy Corbyn’s leadership to split away and form their own movement. It is staying neutral in the Labour leadership contest. Gareth Thomas, the MP for Harrow West and Co-operative chair, said the party would be making more of an effort ahead of its 100-year anniversary in 2017 to develop a voice more of its own. “We want to be more distinctive,” he said. “We are very clear we want to stay in the [European] single market. We see it as an exercise in international cooperation. And we are pretty pro-business as a party. It is co-op businesses that set us up and which continue to affiliate to us, and it is one of the things that marks us out. We have very good links into the co-operative business community as well.”»<br /><br />The curious thing is that J Corbyn, as an internationalist social-democrat would, is still campaigning pro-Remain, that is now for single-market and freedom-of-movement:<br /><br />www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/08/jeremy-corbyn-claims-he-can-unite-labour-to-take-on-tories<br />«He replied that he had campaigned hard but the Brexit decision should be accepted. “We put the case to remain and reform. We did not win the referendum and we have to work with the result,” Corbyn said. He said he criticised the EU’s attempt to impose privatisation but argued that he still wanted access to the single market.»<br />Blissexnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-73614211792391363082016-09-10T11:56:20.519+01:002016-09-10T11:56:20.519+01:00Who?
Not seen anyone.Who?<br /><br />Not seen anyone.Meme Means Memehttps://www.facebook.com/mememeansmeme/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-52451106050803610952016-09-10T10:12:16.447+01:002016-09-10T10:12:16.447+01:00Thanks for your reply David. Looking at the most i...Thanks for your reply David. Looking at the most influential people among Jeremy's group, I'd say McDonnell, Lansman and Milne have a pretty strong far left pedigree between them. Guess we'll have to agree to differ on that one.<br /><br />"Mightn't it have something to do with the fact that he's having to face down a leadership challenge, perhaps? Just a thought."<br /><br />That's part of the answer, but as Jeremy proved last year, the winner of the leadership election is the one who stops talking inwards and appeals outside his core group. Smith is guilty of the same error, I think he would have won a lot more respect if his campaign hadn't gone for his stupid theme of trying to sound more socialist than Jeremy (quite apart from his slightly niche request for a second referendum) and concentrated all his fire on the Tories, who are currently an even easier target than they were during the last leadership election.<br /><br />Re the rise of fascism in Europe, I'm sure what you say is correct but I'd like to hear Jeremy talk about it. I may be wrong but for me that's the biggest issue of the moment.<br />Dave Chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11418208431136545980noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-89766114105778348462016-09-10T00:40:03.427+01:002016-09-10T00:40:03.427+01:00Dave C
'the fact is that the core leadership ...Dave C<br /><br />'the fact is that the core leadership is steeped in far left politics.'<br /><br />Sorry, but that's bollocks. 'Far left' denotes revolutionary socialism of one sort or another, and Corbyn and co ain't no bunch of revolutionary socialists. Socialists, yes; revolutionary, no.<br /><br />'Why is he not attacking the Tories every day, whose handling of Brexit would be funny if it wasn't so tragic?'<br /><br />Good question. Mightn't it have something to do with the fact that he's having to face down a leadership challenge, perhaps? Just a thought.<br /><br />'How does he view the frightening rise of fascism across the Channel, and the growing race divisions on our own streets?'<br /><br />Well, I should think that, like any halfway decent person, he's deeply perturbed by it.David Parryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16543341419630019419noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-7648910351105649032016-09-09T22:04:24.375+01:002016-09-09T22:04:24.375+01:00I've always found your analysis to be well-con...I've always found your analysis to be well-considered Phil but I'm afraid I have to take issue with a lot of what you say here. I agree we will never do coups as well as the Tories, and part of me is pleased about that. This was not a skilfully organised cut throat operation, it was a shambolic collapse brought about by desperation by those who took part. You may prefer not to discuss Corbyn's competence or lack of it, for me it's the central issue.<br /><br />Take for instance these MPs you talk about, egging on the rebels from the sidelines. I agree with you that there have been people since day one gunning for Corbyn, just as there were people gunning for Cameron (IDS, Redwood, Cash, Davies and Co never let a day go by without briefing against him) and Tony Blair (Corbyn chief among them). A competent leader always finds a way of dealing with those people, and it's not by moaning every time someone criticises you.<br /><br />I can only speak for my own ward, where membership increased massively over the last year. We did everything we could to encourage the 200 or so new members to get involved - held a meet and greet, a Christmas party, put on talks and had great guest speakers to tie in with events happening at the time, begged and pleaded with members to come and canvas for Sadiq, and then for Remain. I can honestly say that three of them became involved, one of whom has spent the entire year turning up to meetings to say never mind canvassing, we should be trying to change society. <br /><br />To me it is irrelevant how many far left Trots or whatever have (re)joined, the fact is that the core leadership is steeped in far left politics. Again I have no problem with this, apart from the fact that from my own experience, whenever the far left gets anywhere near power they implode. Their purity doesn't allow them to show any pragmatism, better to leave in a principled huff than stick around and make things happen. The single exception in my lifetime has been Ken Livingstone in charge of London. He made things happen and was for many years a popular leader. One reason he kept in power though was because of his pragmatism. He made no secret of despising Blair and Brown, but was not afraid to compromise with them if it meant maintaining control of London, and rightly so.<br /><br />I agree that like all the candidates from last year (including Jeremy), Owen has failed to articulate a vision of what is wrong with Labour and how to fix it. But Jeremy also hasn't done that. You talk of him articulating a different vision of how Labour should behave, but I don't see an explanation that makes me say 'why yes, of course.' I agree Owen's call for a second referendum is desperate, but with Brexit dominating our lives for the next few years where is Jeremy's vision of how we deal with it? Why is he not attacking the Tories every day, whose handling of Brexit would be funny if it wasn't so tragic? How does he view the frightening rise of fascism across the Channel, and the growing race divisions on our own streets? Never mind single market versus immigrant barriers, how the hell do we help Europe recover from the massive fallout of our voting to leave?<br /><br /><br />Dave Chttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11418208431136545980noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-27939976083357729222016-09-09T21:01:26.403+01:002016-09-09T21:01:26.403+01:00@Makhno
Not heard anything about those Smith comm...@Makhno<br /><br />Not heard anything about those Smith comments and Twitter Corbyn supporters would surely have brought them to my attention.<br /><br />'have nothing constructive to bring to the table'<br /><br />Well apart from all the policy proposals he's brought out what have the Romans ever done for us?<br /><br />'justify to yourself if you can "other" those who disagree with you as evil screaming conspiracy theorists'<br /><br />We just had a poll saying over half of you think MI5 are plotting against him.<br /><br />I am not a huge Owen supporter at all but these responses just illustrate how head-in-the-sand, disconnected from reality, living in its own bubble Corbyn backers are.paulocanninghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17499916652508144662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-4815165588693421792016-09-09T19:09:55.857+01:002016-09-09T19:09:55.857+01:00'Understanding' Corbyn support means under...<i>'Understanding' Corbyn support means understanding support that either refuses to discuss his screaming issues, thinks it's all MI5's fault or thinks the village needs to be burnt to the ground in order to save it.</i><br /><br />That is a straw man so enormous it can fit both Edward Woodward and Nic Cage. <br /><br />A large number of people I know that voted Corbyn did so reluctantly, as a reaction to the utterly idiotic, counter-productive actions of sectors of the PLP and the Labour hierarchy.<br /><br />As for your latter point, it's those sections of the PLP who have been constantly attacking the membership and muttering about splits that seem hellbent on this.<br /><br />I suppose it makes your support for these actions easier to justify to yourself if you can "other" those who disagree with you as evil screaming conspiracy theorists and terrorist sympathisers, but those of us active in the party without a factional cross to bear know that this portrayal (aside from a tiny minority of nutters) is utterly unfair. It just makes you look like a dishonest debater and nasty piece of work, to be honest.Makhnohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07541376002189192898noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-6100386035653471722016-09-09T19:03:48.292+01:002016-09-09T19:03:48.292+01:00Paul Canning
'thinks the village needs to be ...Paul Canning<br /><br />'thinks the village needs to be burnt to the ground in order to save it.'<br /><br />...is a perfect description of the stance of certain elements within the PLP.David Parryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16543341419630019419noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-82156253911069549322016-09-09T18:51:49.249+01:002016-09-09T18:51:49.249+01:00"Thing is, Owen backers can talk about it.&qu..."Thing is, Owen backers can talk about it."<br /><br />Really? I haven't seen a single Smith supporter address his appalling and utterly untrue dog-whistle racist statements about middle eastern refugees in Wales.<br /><br />I would class myself as neither a Smith or a Corbyn supporter, but the defining characteristic of the former is that they have nothing constructive to bring to the table other than their screeching opinions as to how awful the other side are.<br /><br />This is what has alienated many party members, including me, from voting for Smith. The fact that Smith et al have signally failed to adequately present themselves as a "competent" alternative, when this is meant to be their biggest selling point has also done nothing to change or even retain hearts and minds in the membership.<br /><br />I'd happily see a new leader of the party, but until the PLP clean up their own house, take a long hard look at their historical mistakes over the last decade and practice the competence they preach, they are not in a position to supply one.Makhnohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07541376002189192898noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-17491348359245939242016-09-09T14:55:00.523+01:002016-09-09T14:55:00.523+01:00He didn't. He stuck to the original roots of L...He didn't. He stuck to the original roots of Labour. It was Bliar who dragged the party to the right. And he didn't sabotage.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03537353308851009886noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-69293539523409818952016-09-09T13:08:00.108+01:002016-09-09T13:08:00.108+01:00Substance? 'We need a new politics'. '...Substance? 'We need a new politics'. 'But what about your man Corbyn?' 'Never mind that, we need a new politics'<br /><br />Podemos got 21%. With Milne/Paul Mason, Thornberry, McDonnell and your man Corbyn + the Tories breaking open the safe of past historic lovlies (IRA posters everywhere) yet to be deployed we'll be lucky to get that.<br /><br />I do think Owen has issues, tweeted about some of them. Thing is, Owen backers can talk about it. 'Understanding' Corbyn support means understanding support that either refuses to discuss his screaming issues, thinks it's all MI5's fault or thinks the village needs to be burnt to the ground in order to save it.<br /><br />'Miasma' is the word I've deployed and I think it about covers it.paulocanninghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17499916652508144662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-12051972680610499532016-09-09T12:16:19.352+01:002016-09-09T12:16:19.352+01:00@ Frankie D
"If you're prepared to let p...@ Frankie D<br /><br />"If you're prepared to let people die under a tory government rather than hold your nose and vote for someone who might actually breat them, but go against some of your ideals, then you really need to take a good hard look at your priorities."<br /><br />This rubbish is tiresome. As we saw during the 'interregnum' of last summer, the majority of the PLP refused to oppose the government's welfare plans under the ridiculous apprehension that it would help their 'electability'. They've demonstrated that they're quite willing to throw the poor under the bus if it makes certain elements of the media treat them more favourably. There are many things that the PLP prioritises over people 'dying under a Tory government'. Igor Belanovnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-8363433494624492692016-09-09T10:31:27.294+01:002016-09-09T10:31:27.294+01:00This is a good post and there is much of substance...This is a good post and there is much of substance that I agree with on what Labour needs to be to make social democracy relevant in the 21st century. Your concluding thoughts on the networked employee ring true (as I believe Yvette Cooper wrote recently, Labour must be the party of the Uber driver and the Deliveroo biker).<br /><br />I also agree that the PLP (#notallthePLP) have not covered themselves in glory.<br /><br />Their apparent lack of curiosity about where Corbyn's support comes from is bizarre. That they spent the last year briefing rather than charting a political course - just trying to rethink social democracy for our times, even if they did not succeed - is a disgrace.<br /><br />Also, let's be honest - the average Corbyn supporter's fear that, were he to be deposed, the Labour Party would inevitably slide towards crappy PFI, appeasing racists and indulging in priapic atlanticism is not wholly paranoid, is it?<br /><br />And yet I would argue it's not wholly balanced to conclude "therefore, we will keep a man at the top who could kill the party and salt the earth of the entire left".<br /><br />Given I actually want Labour to revive social democracy for the 21st century, which is a tough gig given trends that extend way, way beyond the UK, I don't want any efforts in that direction to be associated with the walking disaster zone that is Jeremy Corbyn.<br /><br />Much as Ed Miliband's appalling political presentation led to an election loss, and therefore torpedoed the credibility of the soft left, Corbyn's ownership of this revivalist project can only lead to defeat, despair and a burial at sea for the few decent ideas developing *around and because of* Corbyn's position.<br /><br />The polling is truly terrifying. A leadership team that thinks the UB40 stunt worth a go is not one that is competent enough to steer the wholesale reformulation of the left you desire!<br /><br />As limited as Owen Smith's campaign is, and as problematic as some of his statements have been, for me Labour members' priority should be to remove from the public perception that the party is happy to have a joke as leader.John Westhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15471796457374078158noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-79119558371221981712016-09-09T10:30:59.370+01:002016-09-09T10:30:59.370+01:00Re Paul's post: Podemos have delivered remarka...Re Paul's post: Podemos have delivered remarkable elecotral results as have Syriza. One party is around 12 years old and in government, the other around 4 years old, is running some of Spain's biggest cities and may well be in government in 2017. <br /><br />Astonishing. What is it you expect from a new party? A resounding majority within 2 years of birth? Paul Ewarthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00057355765883155749noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-9269349073031655962016-09-09T10:30:21.794+01:002016-09-09T10:30:21.794+01:00The party belongs to the membership?
No.
The Party...The party belongs to the membership?<br />No.<br />The Party leader is possibly the sole possession of the membership, the party belongs to the NEC and/or the PLP (in any order).<br />The NEC has just excluded 100,000(alleged) potential voters on flimsy or untrue allegations and the PLP are to hijack the party (alleged) once more by joining the co-op party and forming an 'official' opposition in Westminster.<br /><br />I seem to have been excluded from voting based on the simple fact I was expelled in April 2010 for 5 years( NEC decision).<br />I was not a member of the Labour party when I was 'expelled' from it.<br />...but the game goes on.<br />I am however, invited to become a full member (wait for it) ' but I will have to be interviewed by the NEC and Stoke Central CLP (just like every other would be member, oh yeah).<br />I'm considering this option but I have worded an appeal along the lines of above.<br />Astute readers will know my 'expulsion' ended 18 months ago and I have questioned the validity of the sanction imposed on me.<br />It doesn't matter of 500,000 members, it only matters of an NEC acting on their behalf of which they promoted.<br />The PLP can run around all day causing great harm from within but that don't matter one bit.<br />The Labour party is owned by the NEC.<br />Gary Elsbynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-26929953974959874022016-09-09T10:09:48.993+01:002016-09-09T10:09:48.993+01:00I'm sorry I didn't produce the blog post y...I'm sorry I didn't produce the blog post you wanted me to, Paul. But it would have been nice for you to have dealt with the substance of the one I did write.Philhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06298147857234479278noreply@blogger.com