tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post7213518790749371402..comments2024-03-29T09:14:53.583+00:00Comments on All That Is Solid ...: West Midlands Socialist Party Regional MeetingPhilhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06298147857234479278noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-46758470101924921282007-02-04T23:39:00.000+00:002007-02-04T23:39:00.000+00:00Where did I get that impression? I meant to say is...Where did I get that impression? I meant to say is some, a small minortiy, not all white working class people move out of inner city areas to escape multiculturalism. Anyone who cant see this is in serious denial.<br /> As far as my prjudices against the mainly white drossvilles, you can condemn me for that, but it is shared by a lot of people, including some of your ceds who would rather not go to these places unless they had to, and definetely wouldnt live there unless they were truly desperate! And as I said before these places are generally not as poor as mutii racial inner city areas. So Im not writin off the most opressed sections of the working class white or otherwise.<br /> Anti BNP work is very important, so is socialists grabbing the bull by the horns and saying what we mean, without apology, none of should believe in immigration controls for example and we have to be honest and show leadership and be pro active in what we say and stand for, not everything we say is going to be popular, for example not every strike has mass public suport, but we don't hesitate that its the right thing to do. Same with defending asylum seekers and asserting their right to be here as well as demanding jobs, housing, hospitals, schools for all.<br /> In my opinion its more important to have well positioned socialists in trade union NECs where thty can do more useful work than having councillors who can be pretty impotent in numbers against large tory and new labour majorities.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-16456107368073067042007-02-04T23:05:00.000+00:002007-02-04T23:05:00.000+00:00I can't speak for the Birmingham comrades. If they...I can't speak for the Birmingham comrades. If they do intervene I'm sure we'll hear about it.<br /><br />As for the BNP, I do agree with you. One point often not picked up on by the left is that despite all the hostility to immigrants, despite the daily outpouring of xenophobic bile in the press, the BNP still only has 50 odd councillors. Obviously we'd love that many but in the gran scheme of things it means nothing. <br /><br />However despite their size the far right populism they espouse has struck a chord in a significant layer of the white working class. Not all of these will be willing to support or vote for the fash, but it helps reinforce the barriers we socialists have to break down if our class is ever going to be in the position of remaking society. That's why anti-BNP work is important and why we shouldn't write off this section of the class, which you give the impression of doing.<br /><br />Off to bed, nite.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-84310497589710268522007-02-04T22:47:00.000+00:002007-02-04T22:47:00.000+00:00I am aware that Birmingham is a different city to ...I am aware that Birmingham is a different city to Stoke! You said that the WM cdes had a meeting there, so why not release a statment/press release? Im realy surprised that it was hardly mentioned, it should have been! If its good enough for Respect to inervene, its good enough for you, come on you can and should do better than them! Miaow!<br /> What about your Birmingham cdes?<br />East London cdes did intervene after the Forest Gate raids, went on demos, held public meetings in the area etc. good for them, exemplary work. Newham in East london has a similar ethnic and social mix to inner city Birmingham. Social issues such as health, housing are identical and its the working class muslim community whos at the bottom of the pile.<br /> You may have anti racist material in your particular material, but what I have seen of SP election literature, its hardly mentioned.<br /> I like to think Im not London centric, I love the big Northern cities. I admit i may have a predudice against the mainly white drossvilles like Barking, even though that is technically in London. These places in outer London, Kent and Essex is where whith londoners move to to escape multiculturalism, so it would have more than its fair share of racists who would naturally be drawn to the BNP, especially when multiculturalism eventualy reaches them.<br /> Hackney, Tower Hamlets, Newham for example are a lot poorer according to every indicator of social deprivation, and they are still majority white working class with large ethnic minority working class population. But unlike Barking and other similar places The BNP don't stand much of a chance in these places.<br /> My point is its a very tiny minority who vote for the far right, a lot less than in other European countries.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-30476908280107043902007-02-04T22:25:00.000+00:002007-02-04T22:25:00.000+00:00Well Cynic, if memory serves we did have something...Well Cynic, if memory serves we did have something about racism in the election leaflets we put out in Abbey Green last year. This, please note is a ward where the BNP won.<br /><br />If you are an old sweat on the British left you will know our organisation has a proud record of facing down the fascists, be it on the streets or at the ballot box. We're not afraid of defending oppressed minorities and challenging prejudice or bigotry. Believe me the amount of arguments we've had on stalls with people who blame nurses from overseas for the crisis in the NHS, or asylum seekers and Poles for Stoke's shit wages are countless. Everytime we're out you are guaranteed to come across at least one quite happy to spout on these topics. Therefore if we as an organisation ducked these issues we would be woefully unprepared to sell our ideas in our public activity.<br /><br />On the Brum arrests, I'm afraid your comments have more of a whiff of London-centrism about them. You might not be aware of it but Stoke is an entirely separate city to Birmingham. There is plenty for us to do here without dropping everything and making an intervention on an issue where next to no information has been released. <br /><br />Nor do I feel obligated to blog about it. I talk about things I know. I don't suffer the little Lenin syndrome and so I will not be making an arse out of myself by pretending to know what I talk about. Besides, I have a difficult enough time not making myself look foolish talking about the stuff I *do* know ;)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-80877417328961206722007-02-04T21:56:00.000+00:002007-02-04T21:56:00.000+00:00Hello Mark!
Dont understand what you say about th...Hello Mark!<br /> Dont understand what you say about the left and economism? Its also known as "vulgar Marxism" Do you prefer that term? I don't.<br /> I think the mass arrest of Muslims under the terrorism act with possible 28 day detention is an issue for socialists. As you well know not many end up being charged, so statments/press releases condemning such practises would be seen as something positive by the local working class community.<br /> Im not a member of Respect, in fact im homeless party wise at the moment. Last thing I was in was the Socialist Alliance until you guys and the SWP fucked it up and it all ended in tears. I may well join whatever new workers party comes along, btw hows that campaign going? Has it ben put on hold due to a lack of interest?<br /> As far as Im concerned the Brit left are a really bad bunch and nothing at the moment seems to be the best of that really bad bunch. The SP get some things right and Respect do well in others. <br /> Yes Im well aware of the SPs admirable record on some things, and those of you who Ive known through the years, are actually a good bunch of guys, and a good laugh, and I would probobaly trust them at the barricades more than any other Brit group.<br /> Can you tell me why at every election, the SP literature omits any mention of racism, defending asylum seekers etc. even at these critical times when the BNP are jackbooting all over the place and New Labour and the gutter press are persecuting asylum seekers big time?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-1514507771834297672007-02-04T21:11:00.000+00:002007-02-04T21:11:00.000+00:00One of the best indicators that someone on the Bri...One of the best indicators that someone on the British left these days is a complete and utter crazy left is when they start slinging the word "economism" about with abandon.<br /><br />For the record, the arrest of a few people in connection to an alleged kidnapping plot is not the biggest issue facing socialists in Birmingham or anywhere else. If people are fitted up and convicted of a crime they didn't commit then that would be a major issue to campaign around. That isn't currently the case, you know, and the information available to socialists at the moment about what exactly is going on is limited to say the least. Respect may be willing to launch a campaign on the basis of next to zero knowledge of what happened, but I'd suggest that people who are a bit more serious about their politics and a bit less concerned with semi-communalist electioneering would wait until they actually had some idea. What are you suggesting? That we should run about telling people that it's a disgrace that anyone was arrested because somehow we know that nobody in Britain could possibly be crazy enough to do something like that?<br /><br />The Socialist Party, by the way, has a long record of campaigning for people who have been wrongly accused or convicted of crimes. We also have a long record of campaigning against racism and for that matter of opposing the scapegoating of Muslims.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-32486805300461983772007-02-04T19:38:00.000+00:002007-02-04T19:38:00.000+00:00There is a fine working class tradition of saying ...There is a fine working class tradition of saying what you mean, ie a spade is a spade.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-13076915885588672292007-02-04T19:18:00.000+00:002007-02-04T19:18:00.000+00:00Excuse me, I can call people what the fuck I like,...Excuse me, I can call people what the fuck I like, it wasn't a personal insult at you. did I call you a grunt? No, so chill out. Economism again.<br /> Ill do another post about me soon, just got to go get some fagsAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-77507622027357997712007-02-04T18:48:00.000+00:002007-02-04T18:48:00.000+00:00Hi CR,
thats fine, but perhaps we could start by ...Hi CR,<br /><br />thats fine, but perhaps we could start by not calling working class people who are being tempted to vote BNP 'grunts'.<br /><br />i am a member of the SP in Coventry. what orgs / campaigns are you / have you been involved in comrade?<br /><br />PaulAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-58044145669827159002007-02-04T18:16:00.000+00:002007-02-04T18:16:00.000+00:00Look Paul, I dont know who you or Phil are, am per...Look Paul, I dont know who you or Phil are, am perfectly happy to engage with you on what I and no doubt you guys consider important issues for the left, lets just try to keep it comradely and not to make it personal and insulting,ok?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-56822907112127173142007-02-04T16:29:00.000+00:002007-02-04T16:29:00.000+00:00I am Red Cynic, who by the way has spent all my ad...I am Red Cynic, who by the way has spent all my adult life on the anti imperialist left both in Britain and abroad. So who the hell are you? Please don't be so rude if you don't mind, I haven't insulted anybody so far. All I was doing was asking Phil if those raids in Birmangham came up at your meeting and what was the local SP branches doing around it. I am astonished that as a leading organisation on the left is wasn't even discussed and a statement and/or press release issued. after all it was on Phils patch and happened to piss off a lot of working class people in Birmingham and elsewhere, including no doubt a lot of SP members.<br /> So you let a tiny minority of grunts set the agenda? Did you mention racism, defence of asylum seekers, racism, imperialism, all issues that affect working class people in your election material by any chance?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-77041902293218477172007-02-04T14:44:00.000+00:002007-02-04T14:44:00.000+00:00hello red cynic,
not being rude but who the fuck ...hello red cynic,<br /><br />not being rude but who the fuck are you?<br />ive just come back from campaigning in a bedworth by election for a pro nhs, pro labour movement candidate, trying to win people away from the bnp. you may call them lumpen grunts, i call them disillusioned working class people. your attititude is astonishing.<br /><br />thanks<br />Paul HuntAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-76250033378225743772007-02-04T12:08:00.000+00:002007-02-04T12:08:00.000+00:00Why don't you post on it as you're relatively loca...Why don't you post on it as you're relatively local? Or does the SPs narrow economism mean that the views of lumpen grunts and petit bourgouis wannabees who may vote BNP (an extremely tiny minority of the working class) set the agenda?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-81211075736560448632007-02-04T11:53:00.000+00:002007-02-04T11:53:00.000+00:00Thanks for that info comrade Phil.
Nothing on nati...Thanks for that info comrade Phil.<br />Nothing on national SP website or your Stoke SP site, considering its the biggest story up your way, isn't it letting the side down a bit?<br />Compare it to http://www.respectcoalition.org/<br />Its headline news. Cllr Salma Yacoob (one of their better representatives in my opinion) has been on national radio all week. If a similar arrests are made in Coventry, can we expect cllr Nellist to make a similar intervention? <br /> Or is the SP trying to pander to BNP voters while ignoring the most opressed sections of our community?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-3408232168105053432007-02-04T11:37:00.000+00:002007-02-04T11:37:00.000+00:00It did get a mention, but only a mention. As for t...It did get a mention, but only a mention. As for the meeting, I don't know. Not every Westmids comrade was there. Guess we won't know until the next issue of The Socialist comes out.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-80727701821543196012007-02-04T10:22:00.000+00:002007-02-04T10:22:00.000+00:00Any discussion on those indiscriminate arrests of ...Any discussion on those indiscriminate arrests of Muslims over in Birmingham?<br /> Did any of your comrades attend the rather lively meeting yesterday?<br /> Guess not, looks like Respect has got the upper hand on this.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-46646080393855442282007-02-04T02:09:00.000+00:002007-02-04T02:09:00.000+00:00"Then it was onto the famous United Services Club,..."Then it was onto the famous United Services Club, Brumland's slightly pokey answer to the capital's Conway Hall and Friends Meeting House".<br /><br />Ah, those were the days.... Attended many a meeting at the United Services Club in the good old 1980s.Louisefeministahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08279991897445225597noreply@blogger.com