tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post6608827461771610440..comments2024-03-27T09:14:27.496+00:00Comments on All That Is Solid ...: Scattered Thoughts on the CrisisPhilhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06298147857234479278noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-39477160363940827842016-06-30T07:30:24.271+01:002016-06-30T07:30:24.271+01:00Even if Corbyn had breathlessly campaigned on beha...Even if Corbyn had breathlessly campaigned on behalf of the EU they would have still lost. This is about getting rid of him before a General Election. <br /><br />The referendum was lost because for the first time, the public had a chance to send a message to the political elites and know their vote - which is usually pointless - mattered. That they cut off their noses to spite their faces, is neither here nor there. <br /><br />Labour lost the working class with Tony Blair, when New Labour stealthily opened the door to mass migration "to rub the right's nose in diversity" but actually rubbed their own people's. It was in Labour areas that the impact - only half of which was from European countries, perhaps less - was felt, and this alienated a lot of people, who felt uncomfortable with the change around them and powerless to adapt. <br /><br />It's not like middle class people don't like hanging out with their own types, so why not working class people? And the problem was the working class felt a hell of a lot less likely to see it as an opportunity - their values are grounded in nationalism, not universalism. <br /><br />As I've said before - it is not all about materialism. Communal identity - a sense of security, comfort, shared values, home - trumps this. I think it is interesting to see the howls of disbelief from the middle classes, who have been deprived of their own sense of identity (European). Blimey, look at those middle class people riot in Westminster! Do you think, perhaps, that in all this, there is a sense of how the angry Labour voters felt when they were disempowered and detached from the communities that they identified with? Speedynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-19761676266525274852016-06-30T07:13:54.595+01:002016-06-30T07:13:54.595+01:00Hang on.
To what question is 'Angela Eagle...Hang on.<br /><br />To what question is 'Angela Eagle' the right answer?<br /><br />If the PLP are going to dump JC, then they might as well go full-steam for a new leader that appeals to the mythical median voter of Downsian legend. And that leader is not Angela Eagle.<br /><br />Mike.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-11922447018639110312016-06-29T18:13:11.559+01:002016-06-29T18:13:11.559+01:00I think the MP’s are actually representing their o...I think the MP’s are actually representing their own interests. This is the problem when MP’s get paid too much, they live in circles remote from what most people experience and develop policies that represent the Middle class circles they move in rather than policies that help the working class. Being Middle class and liberal they have a tendency to pander to racism, to bend the stick too much. As a working class liberal and socialist I can say this bigotry has to be tackled head on, and not with patronising tones.<br /><br />The other problem comes with the win at all costs mentality. This way you end up pandering to the worst elements and that pandering has led to a vote to leave the EU. So much of the blame for this leave vote can be attributed to the Blairites.<br /><br />The Labour party is disintegrating because we have a situation where the vast majority of MP’s do not speak for or represent the vast majority of the party. As I said the MP’s represent themselves and their own Middle class constituency. It is also disintegrating because the vast majority of MP’s have actively sought to undermine Corbyn, their leader, at every opportunity. They have never given the bloke a fair chance. I find it utterly laughable when people talk of New Labour being a broad church. The actions of the Blairites have shown it is their way of total chaos. They have caused chaos because they cannot accept mild social democracy.<br /><br />I said from day one you cannot have a party where all the MP’s do not support the leader. Corbyn should have gone on the attack more. What needs to happen next is a mass cull of the Blairites from the party. They need to find a party that represent their interests and views. I can think of a couple straight off the top of my head. And if they hurry up they may be able to help prevent Boris from being the next PM! Though i suspect that for the Balirites the worst possible thing that could happen is a Corbyn victory.<br />BCFGnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-75515338309930437532016-06-29T13:37:32.265+01:002016-06-29T13:37:32.265+01:00Hi Phil,
I've mentioned this site before, (Wi...Hi Phil, <br />I've mentioned this site before, (Wings over Scotland) a Ipro-independence MSM monitor. Today however, he sums up the situation in the PLP as "The Suicide Squad". It's hard to disagree with his assessment. A wincingly good read.Kennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-47652129841422771992016-06-29T09:35:55.310+01:002016-06-29T09:35:55.310+01:00"There would be bloodletting if Jeremy loses ..."There would be bloodletting if Jeremy loses as fair weather supporters decamp"<br /><br />'Fair weather supporters' is somewhat unfair. If Corbyn is toppled, why would members want to remain in a party where the elite can annul the result of their democratic wishes? It suggests things will never change. Surely no member with self-respect could campaign for an MP who treated their views with such open contempt?Igor Belanovnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-53222308284397720822016-06-29T09:27:22.465+01:002016-06-29T09:27:22.465+01:00As I posted on Crooked Timber:
'The problem w...As I posted on Crooked Timber:<br /><br />'The problem with a lot of the Labour MPs is cowardice and lack of vision as much as ambition.<br /><br />Mainstream UK politics is all about manipulation of the electorate, as the recent EU referendum demonstrated only too well. Despite failing miserably to manipulate votes in its favour over the past ten years, the vast majority of the party’s MPs regard manipulation as an essential tactic when it comes to electoral gain.<br /><br />As such, the tactics of manipulation will not work if MPs are held accountable to principles or policy, whether they are dictated by party members or sections of the electorate. This is what MPs are fighting for- their freedom to make things up as they go along.<br /><br />Unfortunately, the MPs have not recognised that this style of politics has discredited them and the system among vast groups of people, as well as leaving the way open for more gross and shameless manipulation from the likes of UKIP. <br /><br />What Corbyn offers, for all his real and imagined flaws, is a rejection of manipulation in favour of debate and persuasion based on principles and arguments. While this is seen as naïve by many, it represents the only way out of the party’s (and the Westminster system’s) impasse. What the PLP are demonstrating is not pragmatism but myopia.'<br />Igor Belanovnoreply@blogger.com