tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post428166290977378417..comments2024-03-18T19:21:49.666+00:00Comments on All That Is Solid ...: Why UKIP Will Not DiePhilhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06298147857234479278noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-10028100297432410292014-02-20T09:58:12.522+00:002014-02-20T09:58:12.522+00:00It's good that the political chattering classe...It's good that the political chattering classes are starting to move away from the disgruntled ex-Tory stereotype as it really is misleading and therefore of no help in understanding what is going on. I was present at the East Surrey count in last May's Surrey County elections, UKIP did pretty well, taking a seat from Conservatives and overtaking Fib-Dems in many places.<br /><br />A local senior Fib-Dem having seen his candidate trounced into third place behind UKIP (the UKIP candidate was a muppet, the Fib-Dem a long-standing, competent, if somewhat boorish and pompous local politician)turned to me and blamed all "your disaffected Tories" for what was quite clearly a collapse in the Fib-Dem vote! UKIP may have eaten into the Tory vote, but it's impact on Fib-Dems was far more damaging. Kamonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-10222947248147727322014-02-19T10:32:47.662+00:002014-02-19T10:32:47.662+00:00The best one I've heard in years is the loon o...The best one I've heard in years is the loon on radio 2 who said that the Somerset levels would not have been flooded if we hadn't received so many immigrants.<br /><br />That's what I call class.Gary Elsbynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-65302225766325146922014-02-19T06:18:22.930+00:002014-02-19T06:18:22.930+00:00Fair enough and you are right i have no right to g...Fair enough and you are right i have no right to get personal.<br /><br />However i do not think you can divide the two - i get irritated because i see the ukip the edl et al as a symptom of the cause - the deception by the Left. <br /><br />Dont misunderstand me - i believe the post 97 policies were simply wrong. A betrayal of the working class - because they weakened their bargaining power further, they served to fragment class consciousness and undermine people's sense of place (and therefore identity and stake in society). Furthermore Labour managed to turn back the clock on race relations (as it used to be known) by taking off the brakes, unsettling communities, and suppressing dissent. <br /><br />And, imho, this served its purpose - it sought to "replace" the wc it "lost" by literally importing an alternative and dressing this self-interest up in fellow feeling while consigning millions to benefits street, which never had anything to do with socialism. Shameful (and i do know what i am talking about). <br /><br />So i see ukip and edl, its ugly brother, as direct result of these wreckless bourgeois policies. Having said that, apart from labeling me as paranoid (incidentally i do see much of this as a subconscious process on the part of Labour) i would welcome it being explained to me why i am wrong because these beliefs do not give me much pleasure! <br /><br />Boursin - lies by omission. . Speedynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-66128493678597739962014-02-18T22:19:26.292+00:002014-02-18T22:19:26.292+00:00Speedy, I don't know why you think I look down...Speedy, I don't know why you think I look down on working people. You forget where I come from and where my political activity (mainly) takes place. But understanding and explaining the antipathies that are rooted in the materiality of people's perceptions of mass immigration is not the same thing as calling out UKIP and the right wing press for peddling outright lies and hate.Philhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06298147857234479278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-5834478983869846822014-02-18T18:47:05.406+00:002014-02-18T18:47:05.406+00:00Or... [we took forward a secret plan to open the d...<i>Or... [we took forward a secret plan to open the door to mass immigration] "to rub the right's nose in diversity"?</i><br /><br />So that, for instance, is a demonstrably false statement then?<br />Boursinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01564272695539641314noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-60866963326315968102014-02-18T07:00:04.366+00:002014-02-18T07:00:04.366+00:00"How does making demonstrably false statement..."How does making demonstrably false statements about immigration not poison political debate?"<br /><br />What, you mean like "we don't expect more than 15,000 immigrants from Central and Eastern Europe over the next three years."?<br /><br />Or... [we took forward a secret plan to open the door to mass immigration] "to rub the right's nose in diversity"? <br /><br />This is why people lost faith Phil - they saw their communities transformed and they felt alienated. <br /><br />This may all appear somewhat vulgar to sophisticated "universalists" like yourself, but ordinary working class people (you know, the ones Labour once was supposed to represent) tend to derive their identity from their roots and don't appreciate being shouted down as "racist" or "bigoted" if they complain about policies being imposed upon them they never voted for.Speedynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-58707707669755307712014-02-17T15:33:59.178+00:002014-02-17T15:33:59.178+00:00How does making demonstrably false statements abou...How does making demonstrably false statements about immigration not poison political debate?Philhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06298147857234479278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-2396174558713187922014-02-17T14:37:35.496+00:002014-02-17T14:37:35.496+00:00“I don't think UKIP bring anything positive to...“I don't think UKIP bring anything positive to politics at all. It poisons reasoned debate…”. Absolutely hilarious. So your average Labour or Tory politician is a beacon of reason and logic?<br /><br />What I think you mean is that you personally disagree with UKIP, but can’t think of any good reasons for doing so. So as a substitute you throw insults at them like “they poison reasoned debate”.<br /><br />Sanjay Mittalhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18032814733307421482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-57648825633285615322014-02-16T23:27:24.626+00:002014-02-16T23:27:24.626+00:00I'm not entirely sure why the Westminster poli...I'm not entirely sure why the Westminster political circus continues with portraying UKIP as a recent flash in the pan. 10 years ago UKIP had failed TV chatshow host Kilroy elected to to the European parliament and parading around the media being as offensive as possible. However, everyone was preoccupied with the success of the BNP at the time, so UKIP were paid no attention at all.<br /><br />With more than 10 years of consistent obnoxious antipolitics, UKIP support is deeply embedded in a large section of the baby boomer generation, even those that at one time may have considered themselves as progressive or radical. It will not die overnight, and a poorer than expected electoral showing this May, or even a referendum on Europe will not make it go away.<br /><br />If Scotland votes to go it alone (and I would if I were in Scotland), I think we could easily see the Kingdom of England outside of the EU with a UKIP/Tory coalition in charge with extended powers for the hereditary monarchy as we descend into hard right wing obnoxiousness ever further.<br /><br />UKIP is a worse threat to the few good things that remain in this country than the BNP or NF ever were.Alex Dawsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14197211489381075789noreply@blogger.com