tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post3822082070045107221..comments2024-03-18T19:21:49.666+00:00Comments on All That Is Solid ...: After Diane AbbottPhilhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06298147857234479278noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-62045645766084508482010-10-06T11:28:36.759+01:002010-10-06T11:28:36.759+01:00in reply to anyone dissapointed by dianne abbots r...in reply to anyone dissapointed by dianne abbots result. In 1988 tony benn the only other campaighn group candidate to be allowed to stand for the leadership only managed thirteenp per cent. Given the division of the left over mcdonnels withdrawal and some backing more "credible" non-left candidates Including tony benn himself. Dianne abbot didnt actually do to badly especially the way the media attacked her and her lack of an organisation. i still dont think the left has a future in labour but thats a personal view. james?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-27458619311607394652010-09-29T09:53:02.071+01:002010-09-29T09:53:02.071+01:00A. Socialist, what you think is ultimately neither...A. Socialist, what you think is ultimately neither here nor there. Other comrades on the left had different calculations in mind. I voted Diane because I felt a message had to be sent. Other voted Balls because they want a head of steam to build behind his return to Keynesian economics. And others voted Ed Miliband to stop David. I don't think anyone doing the latter automatically means they're unworthy of the socialist label.Philhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06298147857234479278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-76043246695030488372010-09-27T18:30:26.556+01:002010-09-27T18:30:26.556+01:00I think the result is grounds for optimism. It sho...I think the result is grounds for optimism. It shows that a Labour Left candidate can still poll 10% despite the poor calibre of the candidate, the confused politics and the non-existent campaign.<br /><br />Throw in the significant proportion of the votes which went to the Eds and clearly a significant left-wing constituency to work with.Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17961828826925034002noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-60094348808172761402010-09-27T13:39:07.568+01:002010-09-27T13:39:07.568+01:00On the subject of Abbott's vote, it may well i...On the subject of Abbott's vote, it may well indicate that the left within Labour is essentially dead. It's no surprise - more members have left the party than have stayed or joined over the past 15 years, and the PLP is ridiculously supine. Still, it is worth looking at the Ken Livingstone topping to NEC poll for some indication of a wider left-wing vote amongst the membership.Greggnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-49414086719723933772010-09-27T13:35:31.848+01:002010-09-27T13:35:31.848+01:00Phil, a lot of people - quite possibly most voters...Phil, a lot of people - quite possibly most voters - see British politics as a two-party contest, and so those who find Labour too right-wing will vote for the Tories because they are the only party Labour can lose to. This problem has been compounded by Labour's shif to the right under Blair and Brown - with policy differences at best muted and at worst non-existent, the election becomes about managerial competence, and those who might be inspired to vote for bold left-wing policies may also, in the absence of those policies, vote for the Tories as better placed to implement and manage the policies both parties are advocating. <br /><br />This is why it has always been a mistake for the Labour leadership to react to a loss of power to the Tories by assuming that it was because Labour was too left-wing.Greggnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-74465822060019000362010-09-27T10:31:20.507+01:002010-09-27T10:31:20.507+01:00I've ranted about this on Socialist Unity as w...I've ranted about this on Socialist Unity as well, but I do think there was a certain amount of pragmatism exercised by voters in this election, particularly by the union voters - although the turnout amongst affiliates was shockingly low.<br /><br />Abbotts campaign was basically shite and I think John McDonnell would have fired up a lot more debate and got far more support. She moaned about having no money, but Andy Burnham had very little dosh and did a much better job getting his albeit incoherent message out.<br /><br />I think the support she received was in spite of her campaign, not because of it. For me, it was the fact DM felt happy enough to nominate her himself to ensure she got on the ballot paper - I bet he would not have done the same for McDonnell.<br /><br />To say a low vote for Abbott is evidence of the collapse of the left within Labour is, in my opinion, not telling the full story which is that many people voted with their heads not their hearts and got the least worst of the front-runners in, and in doing so forced him to the left ground.<br /><br />I suppose we can look forward to a barrage of abuse from the comrades about how EdM is siding with the bosses for not publicly calling for bloody revolution and being a but mealy mouthed on the cuts. <br /><br />Personally, I think he is playing the media game as he knows full well it is not switched Tory voters we are trying to chase. <br /><br />If EdM sticks to the Living Wage policy, we will have something tangible to be fighting for that will make a huge amount of difference to millions of people if enacted. I am more concerned that we need to pin Ed down on several key areas of policy around wages and conditions and make him stick to them rather than get wound up about whatever bollocks he spins to the Torygraph.Lawrence Shawnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-61240297713873736632010-09-27T10:27:19.578+01:002010-09-27T10:27:19.578+01:00Diane would have been a natural choice for me howe...Diane would have been a natural choice for me however I know someone who is as left as she is(sorry but the press calling her hard left really is a joke) would never be elected PM. What didnt help was until after I received my ballot papers and had voted her campaign seem to pretty much centre around I aint one of those guys and I was against Iraq. She did pretty well in the hustings but for me that was already too late and I still dont think I would have changed my mind.<br /><br />As for the party members I suspect the reason the unions seem to be more left orientated is that a lot of people more to the left of the party left during the Blair years, I know I did before rejoining after the election.Jonkarrahttp://koszler.netnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-80219482342855881952010-09-27T09:02:21.691+01:002010-09-27T09:02:21.691+01:00Anonymous, how can you go from Diane Abbott to vot...Anonymous, how can you go from Diane Abbott to voting Tory? If the Labour party isn't "left enough" you're going to support a right wing party bent on making the working class pay for their crisis? Please explain the logic of your thinking to me.Philhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06298147857234479278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-24661369258129822852010-09-27T08:54:38.110+01:002010-09-27T08:54:38.110+01:00You're right, Rick. Maths was never my strong ...You're right, Rick. Maths was never my strong suit.Philhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06298147857234479278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-49024097842710928522010-09-27T08:50:44.196+01:002010-09-27T08:50:44.196+01:00Once upon a time if you were in the Union you were...Once upon a time if you were in the Union you were a party member, now of course like many I'm not a labour party member, I was for 42 years, but decided enough was enough, I voted for Abbott through my Union vote, but I always knew she come last or next to last.<br /><br />Now we have a Miliband I suspect in the end the only winner will be the Tories, because simply put unless Miliband can show their is something in voting labour then sadly for the first time in my long life I will vote ToryAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-63806793057227138862010-09-26T23:12:04.771+01:002010-09-26T23:12:04.771+01:00I make it 35,259 for Abbott (7+9314+25938= 35259) ...I make it 35,259 for Abbott (7+9314+25938= 35259) so an even better third.RickBhttp://www.tenpercent.org.uk/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-62735674244908961382010-09-26T21:52:07.782+01:002010-09-26T21:52:07.782+01:00Dianne's result was dreadful. I think anyone c...Dianne's result was dreadful. I think anyone considering themselves at all left would have voted for her as their first preference. The problem with Ed Miliband is that if he tacks right we have no system of democratic recall in the party to hold him to account. He can now abandon members and trade unionists at will.A. Socialistnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-53475670665202973652010-09-26T21:27:52.128+01:002010-09-26T21:27:52.128+01:00Yes important to have a united and broad left grou...Yes important to have a united and broad left grouping, glad to be in one in my party, I am still sad that John McDonnell could not make a run.<br /><br />Nonetheless the Labour left I am sure will get involved in the anti-cuts campaign and I hope will take lessons from the left in Latin America where some victories against neo-liberalism have been won.<br /><br />I am not a labour party member of course but a left victory in one political organisation should be seen as a victory for other lefts in other places.Derek Wallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05462511891409913195noreply@blogger.com