tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post3642093362667534769..comments2024-03-27T09:14:27.496+00:00Comments on All That Is Solid ...: Why Labour isn't Serious about WinningPhilhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06298147857234479278noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-81221616852495835502021-10-13T23:59:57.956+01:002021-10-13T23:59:57.956+01:00The Labour left have only ever led the party once....The Labour left have only ever led the party once. They did preside over a massive increase in vote share. Didn't win, I'll grant you, but that's a big ask when you're up against not only the Tories and the mass media but significant sections of your own party.....Lost Tangohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17919254475278894888noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-66550638415887914152021-03-31T19:19:34.550+01:002021-03-31T19:19:34.550+01:00Get more oomph for godsake Keir and win the electi...Get more oomph for godsake Keir and win the election- yes you need that as well... it means risk or risk losing. I have left the LP. You have my vote and so many others if you do. The focus is on you. Do it- you can. Do you hear this? Worth a try... Why lose.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-23740538460866611952021-03-20T17:43:33.243+00:002021-03-20T17:43:33.243+00:00Each morning, my neighbour two doors down, raises ...Each morning, my neighbour two doors down, raises the St George’s flag up his flagpole. My mum’s cousin is chairman of the local St George’s dinner club which pre-Covid met once a month for dinner at our local Wetherspoon’s. At the same time, my brother thinks that Nigel Farage should receive a knighthood for services to Brexit.<br /><br />To understand this growth in English nationalism I have recently been reading Gavin Esler’s excellent new book: How Britain Ends – English Nationalism and the Rebirth of the Four Nations. Gavin Esler was the was a main presenter of the BBC current affairs show Newsnight for 12 years until 2014.<br /><br />As a soft Remainer, Mr Esler explains in his book how Brexit was an expression of English nationalism. His book is a warning to the ruling class of what could happen if that class does not take English nationalism seriously. Such nationalism was embodied in UKIP and now in the Tory Party under Boris Johnson which is now an English Nationalist Party.<br /><br />Mr Esler’s solution to “How Britain Ends” is to call for a federal United Kingdom whilst keeping the monarchy. He also calls for an English Parliament with multi-member constituencies elected by single transferable vote. At the same time, as Mr Esler explains in his book, Brexit has done more towards the creation of a united Ireland than the IRA ever did.<br /><br />Marxists must take English nationalism seriously and therefore neutralise the reactionary side of this nationalism by supporting the call for an English Parliament whilst also devolving power downwards from Whitehall to the regions and local councils. Marxists must also support the establishment of a socialist federal republic of England, Scotland, Wales, and Ireland, as part of a socialist united states of Europe.<br /><br />John Smithee<br />CambridgeshireJohn Smitheehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14402532402994363762noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-89475760750984403352021-03-20T15:32:15.564+00:002021-03-20T15:32:15.564+00:00Dr Zoltan Jorovic said...
“The mainstream media, ...Dr Zoltan Jorovic said...<br /><br />“The mainstream media, the parliamentary system and the voting method are all captured by regressive forces that are too entrenched to challenge directly.”<br /><br />Indeed.<br /><br />But,<br /><br />“We need to go around, over, under and beyond them to rebuild genuine deliberative, participative and authentically representative democracy.”<br /><br />How, exactly?<br />A. Pessimistnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-79031416746413551802021-03-20T13:12:53.444+00:002021-03-20T13:12:53.444+00:00Just wondering why you think Starmer has a better ...Just wondering why you think Starmer has a better chance than Corbyn to win in England? Corbyns 2017 performance by vote share was close to Labours 2001 performance and I don't see how Starmer gets close to that given how he's alienated much of the left and the enthused membership willing to go out canvassing under Corbyn is now much smaller and less active. Corbyn was never as poor a general election performer (in England and Wales) as some would have us believe. Starmer has failed to give anyone a positive reason to vote for Labour under him and barely even articulated why you shouldn't vote for the Tories given how soft he generally is on them (compare his demand for Sturgeon to resign with his avoidance of demanding any Tory ministers resignation despite far worse indiscretions). Where are the votes going to come from? It all seems to depend on the Tories losing their otherwise rock-solid voter base somehow - which could only really happen if they crashed the housing market. And the Tories will do everything in their power to ensure that never happens.<br /><br />Corbyns Labour were doing things to try and win in England and build a stronger voter base for the party as 2017 showed. It was then blown apart in the years after as we all know, but Starmer's strategy of pretending 2017 never happened and not trying to build on it or learn from it's successes (and failures) strikes me as utterly foolish (and I guess an example of how the Labour right doesn't want to win. The kind of politics that partly led to Labours growth in 2017 is anathema to them).<br /><br />Also there aren't really many centre left parties to do any pacts with (I've no idea why the lib Dems are often described as centre left or progressive when they're nothing of the sort). Anything involving the nationalist parties will be pretty much impossible too (especially as Labour seemingly hate the SNP more then any other party). Plus it's debatable whether those other parties have enough votes in the right places to help such a coalition to victory anyway.<br /><br />I don't know what the answer for Labour is given the massive structural advantages the Tories benefit from, but I'm pretty sure that Starmer and the Labour right don't have a clue and are heading in the wrong direction.Toberhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06774914662791176590noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-20855858007246997072021-03-20T12:30:24.843+00:002021-03-20T12:30:24.843+00:00A very astute analysis, Phil. Have you read anyth...A very astute analysis, Phil. Have you read anything by Jeremy Heimans and his theories on the emergence of New Power? It seems to me that both labour and Tories are very much rooted in what he calls Old Power, and the real opportunity is not to try to wrestle control of that - its pretty well sown up as you suggest - but to bypass it. My view is that political parties as they currently exist are in inevitable decline. The surge of support from younger people for Corbyn was like a drought stricken tree flowering profusely one last time before it succumbed to slow decay. Heimans talks about Old power being like currency - hoarded, controlled and dispensed as required, whereas New power is like a current, directed and focused, but fast moving and not stored. His examples are of movements which emerge and have an impact but then tend to dissipate - e.g. MeToo, or BLM or even, to an extent, XR. They are built around not centralised, established organisations that you join and belong to for many years, but around ideas, issues and events. They channel huge amounts of energy very quickly and can have a real impact.<br /><br />So, to answer @Rob, No, starting a new left wing party is pointless. It will simply compete for the same diminishing resource. It should be clear to everyone that serious electoral, constitutional and governmental (structural) reform is urgently required. Until that happens we are stuck with the dysfunctional setup that now ensures a permanent regressive dominance of (party) politics.<br /><br />The alternative is to channel the underlying progressive majority through new structures and networks to force change. The mainstream media, the parliamentary system and the voting method are all captured by regressive forces that are too entrenched to challenge directly. We need to go around, over, under and beyond them to rebuild genuine deliberative, participative and authentically representative democracy.Dr Zoltan Jorovicnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-21655314349535805842021-03-20T06:56:18.239+00:002021-03-20T06:56:18.239+00:00Although I admire much what you say the fact is la...Although I admire much what you say the fact is labour need to do something to win in England if it has any chance of winning a general election. I'm pretty sure starmer has more chance of doing so than Corbyn did.<br /><br />Going forward I think the main hope for labour is an electoral pact with other centre left parties in the hope of getting legislation passed to introduce a PR voting system. I wonder if the current leadership has the imagination in which to do this?Jimbohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17882323280846712158noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-65118203105166720682021-03-20T00:31:31.733+00:002021-03-20T00:31:31.733+00:00«back in the 90's the Labour right were determ...«back in the 90's the Labour right were determined to win,»<br /><br />Not quite, they were desperate to win, and had no clue on how to win. So they fell for the temptations into "centrist" whiggish thatcherism whispered by the Prince Of Darkness.<br />They would not acknowledge how close Labour came to winning in 1983 and 1987 but for Falklands and the SDP. Eventually they won by default because the Conservatives crashed the southern property market, not because they were desperate or "determined" to win, or because of adopting "centrist" whiggish thatcherism, because the LibDems have and enduring faith in it and have not won an election in 100 years.Blissexnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-81559085937352771102021-03-19T23:29:22.267+00:002021-03-19T23:29:22.267+00:00As usual my impression is that the Labour right is...As usual my impression is that the Labour right is not simply fabian "aristocracy of the proletariat", still (barely) socialdemocrat, That's a component of the Labour right, but there is also the "whig" component who are not socialdemocrats or socialists, and while most of the shadow cabinet may be fabian, the "whig" ideology is what New Labour in the past and now New New Labour have largely adopted (plus "whatever it takes to win" like nationalist toryism).Blissexnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-76922830184426553652021-03-19T17:47:59.187+00:002021-03-19T17:47:59.187+00:00You paint a convincing picture but back in the 90&...You paint a convincing picture but back in the 90's the Labour right were determined to win, what in your opinion has changed?<br /><br />EricAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-64054740621592852782021-03-19T17:01:33.549+00:002021-03-19T17:01:33.549+00:00A fair summary of the class dynamics within the La...A fair summary of the class dynamics within the Labour Party, and the often reactionary nature of trade union officialdom. It matches my experiences. The only time I've been threatened with the sack was in the late 1970s by a trade union official, following a wild cat work-to-rule. I was told by the union convenor that he would 'have me sacked' and that I'd 'never work again' if we (warehouse workers) didn't go back to work loading unsafe lorries. The only time I've been aggressively 'closed down' in a meeting was during a local Labour Party meeting which was called to discuss Blair's rewriting of Clause 4. In both cases, the behaviour of the official led to the destruction of the very organisation they represented - i.e. the majority of my fellow warehouse workers left the union, and the ward Labour Party became moribund following a mass resignation of members.<br /><br />You know, the disciplining of labour isn't just the preserve of the employing class. PeterBnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-28338017385982792452021-03-19T16:32:25.635+00:002021-03-19T16:32:25.635+00:00"The Labour right have run the party for the ..."The Labour right have run the party for the bulk of its history, and they've never been made accountable for Westminster defeat after Westminster defeat, so we have to ask why they do keep failing."<br /><br />So when was the last time the Labour Left won an election? 1950? Isn't it fairer to say the Labour Party, as a whole, has a poor electoral record?<br /><br />Also if the Right is disliked so much, why don't the Left breakaway, start a new party with all the policies they hold dear and fight the Tories in their preferred manner? Robnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-21073087417532195492021-03-19T12:45:38.585+00:002021-03-19T12:45:38.585+00:00Very fascinating ideas there. This gives me a lot ...Very fascinating ideas there. This gives me a lot to ponder. Robert Dysonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05512326175916762262noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-32092522737119857942021-03-19T08:54:15.714+00:002021-03-19T08:54:15.714+00:00I always write about what's happening in polit...I always write about what's happening in politics at the moment, Graham. The Tories are locked into a spiral of their own and that's not about to change, but what is a more urgent matter is how Keir Starmer is disassembling the Labour party and the party's vote. Hence the switch in emphasis.Philhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06298147857234479278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-64460184943548873322021-03-19T07:06:17.931+00:002021-03-19T07:06:17.931+00:00When I started reading your blog your main point w...When I started reading your blog your main point was the inevitable decline of the Tories because they were locked into the politics of an aging and dying generation.<br />Now you seem to have switched to the inevitable decilne of the Labour party.Grahamnoreply@blogger.com