tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post320444888155017923..comments2024-03-27T09:14:27.496+00:00Comments on All That Is Solid ...: Branch Meeting: The Other EuropePhilhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06298147857234479278noreply@blogger.comBlogger3125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-5105816629235646362008-08-25T13:13:00.000+01:002008-08-25T13:13:00.000+01:00Thx, sounds like we agree more than we disagree on...Thx, sounds like we agree more than we disagree on Eastern Europe.<BR/><BR/>And it's good to hear more on the BNP thingAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-85782608212025081342008-08-25T11:28:00.000+01:002008-08-25T11:28:00.000+01:00How do Complex. In answer to your points:1)I would...How do Complex. In answer to your points:<BR/><BR/>1)I would suggest the path to EU entry on the part of East European countries is more dialectical than my superficial treatment above suggests. Did Western capital want them in the EU? The answer has to be yes - new (albeit not that lucrative) markets, more resources and a well of skilled but cheap labour were all there for the taking. As for the East themselves, again I think we would be in agreement in that elite circles saw the EU as a profitable opportunity, both in terms of markets and the kinds of aid payments the Irish republic, Portugal and Greece did well out of.<BR/><BR/>In terms of a popular clamouring, I didn't want to give the impression that East Europeans wanted to subordinate themselves to Brussels-based empire or anything. But C noted in his lead off (the comrade has a Lithuanian background) that the West is popularly associated with modernity and progress - so the EU and by extension, neoliberalism is perceived in positive terms.<BR/><BR/>2) I should have added the caveat *at the present time* regards Russia/NATO confrontations. The rest of what you say I'd agree with.<BR/><BR/>3) Re: Stoke and the BNP, I'm not going to say much about our plans as local fash do occasionally visit this blog.<BR/><BR/>Firstly, and this needs to be stressed, the BNP are not having a march. Fearing some very ugly scenes the police have prevented them from doing so. What is supposed to be happening is the BNP are holding a memorial meeting followed by leafleting their strongholds in Stoke. Because of this, local anti-fascists have planned a response that takes this into account.<BR/><BR/>Whether it will go ahead, it's hard to say. It depends if they can secure a venue and if they're confident of getting a good turnout. The lack of publicity about it since the end of July might just be them being secretive or evidence of it being quietly dropped. Whatever the case, whether it goes ahead or not, we will still be out publicising our anti-fascist message.Philhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06298147857234479278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-69689054620308789132008-08-25T01:13:00.000+01:002008-08-25T01:13:00.000+01:00Very good :) But I've a few comments to make.As so...Very good :) But I've a few comments to make.<BR/><BR/><I>As some countries moved toward the European Union, it became clear they would be admitted at a price: the dismantling of their economies and restructuring along neoliberal lines, and a programme of reforms to meet a minimum standard of liberal democracy.</I><BR/><BR/>Sorry, but the restructuring of Eastern Europe didn't happen because people were that desperate to join the EU. It was deliberately and forcefully imposed by the world's "financial community", who manufactured economic crises into which the post-Stalinist states were born. So argues Naomi Klein in <I>Shock Doctrine</I>, anyway. While we can understand how a lot of the discontent at the old regimes found expression in pro-Western sentiment (just as we can understand why socialists in the West were attracted to Stalinist parties) I think it's fair to say that most people's reaction to escaping from the Empire of the East wasn't an urge to subjugate themselves to the Empire of the West.<BR/><BR/>And I take even more issue with this:<BR/><BR/><I>at present the ruling class in the East and the West have more than enough mutual interests to prevent this going beyond an exchange of insults and human rights lectures. </I><BR/><BR/>I'm not convinced. Of course they have shared interests, but then so did the capitalists and aristocrats of pre-WWI Europe. And in a way, those interests found a certain perverse expression in the trenches remember the bayonet - the weapon with a worker at both ends). Capitalism creates competition, one way or another, and when it happens at the level of superpowers and regional blocs there's every chance of it taking on a military aspect.<BR/><BR/>How the decline in American hegemony will manifest itself is hard to say, but the existence of mutual interests between the capitalists of the world is not enough, IMHO, to suggest a peaceful outcome. Far from it, personally, I think that accelerating resource depletion will intensify the competition between the superpowers. If the world ever needed revolutionary defeatism...<BR/><BR/>Anyway, I actually came on to sollicit your predictions for September 20th. Without prejudice. How likely do you think the BNP are to carry out their march, bearing in mind that they've already rescheduled a couple of times? If not, how big do you think it's likely to be? I realise there's no crystal ball, but your guess has one advantage over mine given that you're actually in Stoke.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com