tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post30315494793670978..comments2024-03-27T09:14:27.496+00:00Comments on All That Is Solid ...: Hitler: The Rise and FallPhilhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06298147857234479278noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-65474459803400509542016-10-29T19:32:29.357+01:002016-10-29T19:32:29.357+01:00"Why didn't they collapse, or at least ta..."Why didn't they collapse, or at least take a big hit?"<br /><br />I said clearly, '...European economies were recovering from the depression by 1933 and that rearmament provided a major boost to employment'. <br /><br />The Nazis were an 'answer' to political problems in Germany that were aggravated by economic factors. Their response was to prepare the country for war by developing the economy and disciplining the population. This helped them in the short term by creating work to dampen down working-class discontent, and pleased the capitalist class by providing orders for heavy industry and keeping workers in their place. We know what happened in the longer term, and very few people in Germany benefitted from that, despite your insinuations that somehow the creation of a dictatorship was a bonus.Igor Belanovnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-60632570448445170392016-10-29T10:22:35.052+01:002016-10-29T10:22:35.052+01:00Igor - you've not answered my question, but th...Igor - you've not answered my question, but thank you for the Tim Mason heads-up.<br /><br />"the German working class benefitted less than would be expected" sounds as if their terms and conditions improved, but you don't want to say it. Why didn't they collapse, or at least take a big hit? After all, in the States today, male real wages are lower than they were in 1973, forty-plus years ago - and that's with relatively free trades unions. Not so long ago that kind of thing would breed major resistance. (They've fallen in the UK since 1997, as well). <br /><br />https://www.brookings.edu/opinions/the-typical-male-u-s-worker-earned-less-in-2014-than-in-1973/ <br /><br />"there is the issue of representation" - agreed, but representation is a means as well as an end. Fat lot of good representation has done for those US workers. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-31573706544400752852016-10-27T19:06:18.154+01:002016-10-27T19:06:18.154+01:00@ Anonymous
Try looking into the work of Tim Maso...@ Anonymous<br /><br />Try looking into the work of Tim Mason on the issue of Nazi Germany and the working class. Given that European economies were recovering from the depression by 1933 and that rearmament provided a major boost to employment, the German working class benefitted less than would be expected, and far less after 1939 when millions of them were slaughtered as a result of Hitler's decisions.<br /><br />Plus, there is the issue of representation, and the working class can hardly be said to be better off from losing its independent political and social institutions. (The same could be said about the DDR, but at least here the regime did actively discriminate in favour of the working class in many fields.)Igor Belanovnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-1459993147036742452016-10-27T10:30:40.601+01:002016-10-27T10:30:40.601+01:00"Trotsky had rightly identified that the Nazi...<i>"Trotsky had rightly identified that the Nazis presented the labour movement a mortal threat"</i><br /><br />Has anyone done work on whether this analysis was actually correct? Did German wages and living standards freefall after 1933 or whenever free trades unions were (presumably) suppressed, and the capitalists (presumably) made hay? <br /><br />Because isn't maintaining and/or increasing working class wages and living standards ultimately what a labour movement is <i>for</i>?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-9995705701092063242016-10-25T17:46:09.061+01:002016-10-25T17:46:09.061+01:00I think the tone of these documentaries is often o...I think the tone of these documentaries is often on the level of, “Look what happens when one of the plebs takes power!”<br /><br />“but this took place alongside the work of contesting elections, kissing babies, setting up Nazi social clubs, and so on.”<br /><br />The so on being repeating ad nauseam all the old anti-Semtic tropes.<br /><br />What should not be forgotten is that before the Nazi’s came to power the centrists were given an opportunity to turn Germany around. The first instinct of the German people and the German Bourgeois was to look to ‘social democratic’ forces but in reality under the ‘‘social democracts’ the economy tanked and the last straw pulled. In desperation the Germans turned to the far right. Hyperinflation did not take place under the Nazi’s!<br /><br />The end road for liberal centrist reformist capitalism is the far right in one form or another and the end road for the far right is centrism. This endless circle will carry on to one degree or another while ever capitalism is the dominant system. Thos who support centrist reformism today are simply supporting the far right sometime in the future.<br /><br />If your stated goal isn’t to replace capitalism then you are deluding yourself if you think capitalism can be one endless centrist paradise. If you support centrists today ou may as well wear a t-shirt saying, Vote Tory tomorrow!<br /><br />The centrists have 2 lines of argument, always claim a vote for the right will be the biggest disaster ever, so please vote for us (They did it with Bush, they are doing it with Trump, they always do it with the Tories) and never put your faith in anyone who can’t win the election, like, now because god forbid the disaster that would befall us if the right wing get in. Oh and we can rule forever, even though it has never happened and they are frequently replaced by the right and hey presto we have the disaster of the right in power endlessly!<br /><br />If we say I would prefer Corbyn as leader even if we lose the election they scream and say, but what about the poor workers who will suffer under the evil Tories, only Yvette Cooper can save the world and save the poor workers! <br /><br />Yeah, whatever.<br /><br />Vote Corbyn, throw out the Blairites and don’t get too carried away if we lose the election!<br />BCFGnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-16981990388196641552016-10-24T23:41:18.515+01:002016-10-24T23:41:18.515+01:00Good to hear a a different account of this subject...Good to hear a a different account of this subject. I set my Sky box to record the whole series, but got a few minutes into it and realised it was yet another 'filler' documentary with the same journalistic standards as "Couples who kill" or "The 100 best Christmas Bloopers".<br /><br />It's a shame - I think the country - if not the world - is at a time when we'd really learn a great deal from some clear thinking about the events of what is still relatively recent history.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com