tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post293382458931417298..comments2024-03-29T07:14:55.029+00:00Comments on All That Is Solid ...: Ed Miliband: Obviously An Apologist for HamasPhilhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06298147857234479278noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-59269893033352416502010-10-08T12:56:37.855+01:002010-10-08T12:56:37.855+01:00Well Brother G, have you managed to reflect on the...Well Brother G, have you managed to reflect on these issues and our discussions?<br /><br />Has it changed your thinking in any way?modernitynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-8108260892627346452010-10-04T22:49:34.021+01:002010-10-04T22:49:34.021+01:00"and it was that which I was seeking to criti...<i>"and it was that which I was seeking to critique."</i><br /><br />Brother G,<br /><br />Surely if you're going to critique something then you have to critique the <b>valid</b> argument?<br /><br />That is, you have to take the most substantive point and deal with that, not the weakest point (or any inferred meaning).<br /><br />As far as I can see no one at HP accused Ed Miliband of being antisemitic, thus to imply that they did is creating a straw man and is not a critique.modernitynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-4191202744078555882010-10-03T19:22:39.151+01:002010-10-03T19:22:39.151+01:00Mod: While there have not been direct accusations ...Mod: While there have not been direct accusations of anti-Semitism, many of those who have picked up the story have sought to do so in a way that implies shady undertones to Ed Milibands decision. Take, for example, this quote from the Harry's Place article linked in this post:<br /><br />'A Harry’s Place post in February 2009 said:<br /><br />“Only idiots and fellow racists would promote Ismail Patel and campaign alongside him.”<br /><br />I’m not sure which conclusion we should draw from this.'<br /><br />This post, along with several others, seem to be attempting to make hay of the fact that the Friends of Al-Aqsa organisation has had a presence in Labour Friends of Palestine, and that people who address one organisation are somehow validating the views of the other.<br /><br />To be perfectly honest my original wording was never intended to come across as 'sneering', and if the feeling is that my choice of words serves to lower the tone then I apologise. But I do see in these stories an attempt to paint Ed Miliband's appearance in tones that suggest a malevolent sympathy to the negative elements of anti-Israeli sentiment, and it was that which I was seeking to critique.Brother Gnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-13121529200856346102010-10-03T13:19:30.707+01:002010-10-03T13:19:30.707+01:00"Yes. That is to say, I would use such langua...<i>"Yes. That is to say, I would use such language to ridicule the pointed (if not overt) suggestion of racism that isn't actually there."</i><br /><br />Brother G,<br /><br />That surely is the point?<br /><br />No one but no one has suggested that Miliband was being antisemitic.<br /><br />That is your invention.<br /><br />That is your strawman, and completely unnecessary.modernityhttp://modernityblog.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-4683254222352552572010-10-03T12:20:49.874+01:002010-10-03T12:20:49.874+01:00'Would you use such language when referring to...'Would you use such language when referring to another form of racism?'<br /><br />Yes. That is to say, I would use such language to ridicule the pointed (if not overt) suggestion of racism that isn't actually there.<br /><br />e.g. Mr Smith had the audacity to voice such anti-Islamic sentiment as 'maybe honour killings are a bad thing'.Brother Gnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-55719065946884038392010-10-03T00:07:44.996+01:002010-10-03T00:07:44.996+01:00"Ed had the audacity to voice such shockingly..."Ed had the audacity to voice such <b>shockingly anti-semitic intentions</b> as an ‘interest in visiting the region and espousing British values in order to bring about peace in the region’. "<br /><br />Is this sneering really necessary?<br /><br />Would you use such language when referring to another form of racism?modernityhttp://modernityblog.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-71310407963377568572010-09-30T19:04:23.370+01:002010-09-30T19:04:23.370+01:00@Anonymous: I wouldn't disagree that there are...@Anonymous: I wouldn't disagree that there are some elements on the pro-palestinian left who stray from the legitimate issues of the conflict towards what could be perceived as dangerously anti-semitic sentiment.<br /><br />However, I daresay that there are a minority within Labour Friends of Israel and other pro-Israel organisations who also hold views which go far beyond a reasonable defence of that state and into the ream of zionist cheerleading.<br /><br />The important thing is that those negative minorities on both sides should not be used as a weapon against people trying to level legitimate criticism against the Israeli military action. It seems to me that Ed Milibands presence at the event was to display a genuine and reasonable concern for the palestinian people, who we must remember are in fact living under occupation, and not a declaration of support for the murkier elements of Islamic extremism.Brother Gnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-17512120633710246522010-09-30T14:49:58.362+01:002010-09-30T14:49:58.362+01:00Hi Phil
Labour Friends of Palestine is chaired by...Hi Phil<br /><br />Labour Friends of Palestine is chaired by a former Labour MP who has talked about "long tentacles of Israel" with regard to the General Election, and hosted an event where a Labour MP talked about "Jewish millionaires" controlling the Tory party. An organisation that hosted a meeting last week at conference sponosred by Friends of Al Aqsa whose leader has indulged in holocaust denial.<br />I know you oibviously disgaree with such language but it's worth bearing in mind.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com