tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post2780039076054329995..comments2024-03-29T07:14:55.029+00:00Comments on All That Is Solid ...: Understanding Labour's AbstentionsPhilhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06298147857234479278noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-76908611384588092992015-07-22T12:27:16.138+01:002015-07-22T12:27:16.138+01:00@ Speedy
Socialism is not 'making capitalism ...@ Speedy<br /><br />Socialism is not 'making capitalism work for the majority'- at best that would be social democracy, though even then it does not encompass the description. Socialists basically believe that capitalism is incapable of 'working for the majority' in the long term and hope to establish and extend non-capitalist sectors of society and common ownership (in whatever form) of 'the means of production'.<br /><br />As such, Jeremy Corbyn may well be a socialist at heart, but in practice he would historically be regarded as a moderate social democrat in his attempts to defend social rights and more human attitudes to the the less well-off. I would regard his campaign as a little too conservative and not socialist enough. But, irrespective of that, he has clearly tried to build a bridge across the ridiculous division between 'strivers and skivers' that the current ideological background has created, and given that plenty of 'strivers' are currently low-paid benefit recipients, parents or people in insecure employment, there are certainly large numbers of potential voters out there.<br /><br />I don't think Corbyn will win the leadership election, but his current level of popularity demonstrates the wisdom of him standing. Hopefully it might help to persuade Labour's next leader that they cannot afford to regurgitate Tory assumptions and that they have to do their best to provide a humane alternative. I'm not holding my breath though.Igor Belanovnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-2736230436582804842015-07-22T12:17:55.654+01:002015-07-22T12:17:55.654+01:00What events have also shown is that we desperately...What events have also shown is that we desperately need to change the rules for electing Labour Leaders - if indeed we should have such a position. Corbyn has huge support amongst Labour Party members and amongst the public. Yet, he could so easily not even have been on the ballot.<br /><br />Moreover, as various reports have suggested, if he wins those same rules could allow a handful of MP's to launch a coup against him. It ought to be the case that the Party Leader not even be an MP, but short of that, it ought to be the case that the position is subject to automatic annual election by the whole party in or out of government, and there should be no privileged position for the PLP in making nominations as to who should be on the ballot.<br /><br />If we have one member one vote in the party it should mean that when it comes to nominations too.Boffyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08157650969929097569noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-83445624927455341902015-07-22T09:19:16.779+01:002015-07-22T09:19:16.779+01:00"Perhaps Brown knew what he was doing when he..."Perhaps Brown knew what he was doing when he kept John McDonnell off the ballot."<br /><br />Who had of course come to political age over the 80s. It seems like a cycle is repeating, except these are very different times. <br /><br />There remained an organised labour back in the day, now it is fragmented and principally public sector - which is being rapidly dismantled by Osbourne et al: Cameron "taking on" the public sector is his version of Thatcher "taking on" the unions, with a whimper rather than a bang. <br /><br />This is a continuation of the SAME WAR, and the Left is losing again. <br /><br />Of course as you have said, labour is anyone drawing a wage (more or less) but the white collar working class have largely yet to recognise themselves as such and while there is market flexibility they will continue to fail to do so. <br /><br />So as you say - what is Labour for? Socialism is not Communism - it is making capitalism work for the majority (supposedly, although socialists seem to be terribly naive about how to do so) - yet while the Tories (supported by the media) are winning the argument that they are making capitalism work better for ordinary people THERE IS NO PLACE FOR LABOUR.<br /><br />Labour has to make a convincing case that they can make the system materially improve the lives of the "strivers" who are the majority of the voters - at the moment the Tories are winning this argument. <br /><br />Labour blew it big time by appearing aloof to the concerns of the people who actually voted for them - Brown's "bigot" moment was the point at which the Left lost it, and continues to lose it because it continues to believe it. It loathes much of the "labour" it is supposed to support, and at best regards them in a patronising way. While it does so, it cannot claim to represent them - and people see through this because, actually, although they may be "ignorant" they are not stupid.<br /><br />Thatcher shifted the Tories from being the toff's party to one of working class aspiration - a similar revolution needs to take place in Labour. But this means embracing the people (and their values) that they loathe, just as the posh Tories must have loathed the "loadsamonies". <br /><br />Otherwise, all is lost - JC may well win as he will be elected by the hard core of members who prefer ideological purity to power. Who prefer to feel morally superior to embracing the ugly reality. These utopians may well go to heaven, but screw the rest... you may end up wondering why you jumped ship Phil. <br /><br />Bon voyage... ;-)<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /> <br /><br /><br /><br /> <br /><br />Speedynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-9497751942948257282015-07-22T09:10:24.546+01:002015-07-22T09:10:24.546+01:00I think we should get one thing straight, abstaini...I think we should get one thing straight, abstaining equates to supporting. We now know where the Labour party stands, right next to the most reactionary Tory party since, well maybe the last lot. But a distinctly nasty and remorseless party - add in spineless and pathetic and you have the Labour party.<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-12490647756900442842015-07-22T08:22:21.128+01:002015-07-22T08:22:21.128+01:00That bit was written before last night's YouGo...That bit was written before last night's YouGov poll did the rounds. Despite that, I stand by what I said: I don't think Jez is going to win. However, if he does then there are some interesting times ahead - this blog will have plenty of fodder to chew on.Philhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06298147857234479278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-61413546583267840452015-07-22T06:42:22.597+01:002015-07-22T06:42:22.597+01:00"Suppose Andy or Yvette as the two favourites..."Suppose Andy or Yvette as the two favourites win."<br /><br />Have you been watching the news? Speedynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-35795632848298284712015-07-22T01:10:10.379+01:002015-07-22T01:10:10.379+01:00I basically agree, but I think your Verstehen need...I basically agree, but I think your Verstehen needs go to one stage further - and bring the critique which you bracketed at the top back in. Given that this is a vile Bill which is designed to increase hardship and immiseration, what does it say about the 'main' leadership contenders that they were prepared to abstain for the sake of future manoeuvring within the party?<br /><br />Everything solid does seem to be melting into air at the moment - it's getting hard for Labour Party leadership contenders to avoid answering the question of who they are actually for (and if it's not the working class, what use they are). Hopeful and scary times - surprisingly so; is it just JC's candidature? Perhaps Brown knew what he was doing when he kept John McDonnell off the ballot.Philhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07009879034507926661noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-86393570179561006072015-07-21T23:12:06.323+01:002015-07-21T23:12:06.323+01:00According to William Blake, it's the path ofex...According to William Blake, it's the path ofexcess that leads to the palace of wisdom.<br />Will Bartonnoreply@blogger.com