tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post2427064867338656752..comments2024-03-27T09:14:27.496+00:00Comments on All That Is Solid ...: An Open Letter to Yes-Voting SocialistsPhilhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06298147857234479278noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-78010490649729207662014-09-18T20:36:47.969+01:002014-09-18T20:36:47.969+01:00There's only so much you can put in a short le...There's only so much you can put in a short letter, David. But in case you missed it:<br /><br />"The British state is hardly a repository of socialism. Time and again it's been used as a battering ram for bourgeois interests at home and abroad. And yet, like all liberal democratic states it is vulnerable to pressure from below. That is the case right now. The 307 year old union is done come what may. But there is an opportunity to make it anew, to re-establish Britain as a multinational, federal state that has come together on the basis of a voluntary union of peoples. If you, your comrades, the radical organisations and the Scottish labour movement stay with us, that might be the prize. No guarantees of course, beyond more organising and struggle. But what a win it would be. "<br /><br />Incidentally, I've been discussing and debating Scottish independence with comrades north of the border for about 14 years ...Philhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06298147857234479278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-64233701222488962582014-09-18T19:46:41.980+01:002014-09-18T19:46:41.980+01:00David, you talk as if the Scottish left as a whole...David, you talk as if the Scottish left as a whole is committed to independence, but that just isn't true.<br /><br />Phil, I agree with your points, but I think there has to be more to it than that. We've had three hundred years of history. We've built a nation - not an English or Scottish nation but a British nation. Not all of that history was great, some of it was good at the time but not something you'd want to repeat now, but it's all our history.<br /><br />The left's activists (not the voters) may be suspicious of patriotism, but I think really we need to admit that Britain is our country and we do love it in our own way.Chrisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-53045806608487713502014-09-18T17:24:23.647+01:002014-09-18T17:24:23.647+01:00I imagine speedy sat at a table with a crystal bal...I imagine speedy sat at a table with a crystal ball.<br />Chrisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-12277856502019232922014-09-18T16:51:22.120+01:002014-09-18T16:51:22.120+01:00"1. Does Scottish independence strengthen or ..."1. Does Scottish independence strengthen or weaken the labour movement?<br />2. Does Scottish independence strengthen or weaken British capital?"<br /><br />1.Strenghten<br />2.Weaken<br /><br />But in any case these are not the only questions. This approach is a sort of pre-Marx syndicalism. What about the state? The British state is a barrier to the advance of the Labour movement.<br /><br />Anyway as an above comment has already made clear you are much too late. We all made this decision years ago. Perhaps you should have been talking to us and, crucially, listening to us, long before the actual week of the vote.<br /><br />Either way, see you on the other side. And from now on lets practice and equal relationship between the Scottish and English left.Davidnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-80824753521619208892014-09-18T14:49:15.841+01:002014-09-18T14:49:15.841+01:00Do not hold Scotland hostage for England's gen...Do not hold <a href="http://thinkingaboot.blogspot.ca/2014/09/march-of-democracy.html" rel="nofollow">Scotland hostage</a> for England's genetic problems. The City, how can the city and the royalty exist in the 21st century.Stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14162783936999869984noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-10829210146859159262014-09-18T13:11:07.310+01:002014-09-18T13:11:07.310+01:00Thanks for the link Phil, and you're very welc...Thanks for the link Phil, and you're very welcome to 'steal' the verses. Their author (who really is a young lady comrade) is well chuffed.Kenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03493440163559858462noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-9324872203691765352014-09-18T00:06:01.249+01:002014-09-18T00:06:01.249+01:00Too late- the left are voting Yes- maybe from shee...Too late- the left are voting Yes- maybe from sheer impatience. Scottish Labour is a husk and this campaign has tarnished it some more.<br /><br />Federalism isn't on the ballot paper. It was UK state that allowed Ineos to capture strategic asset at Grangemouth. BTW the refinery is half-owned by the Chinese government. <br /><br />Voting No send message that UK can do what it likes- Scottish people lose leverage and establishment remains in place,Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-9778670144731547172014-09-17T23:07:09.235+01:002014-09-17T23:07:09.235+01:00The irony is this will be a classic own goal by th...The irony is this will be a classic own goal by the Left and it will be too late when they come greeting back to Labour. <br /><br />As much as i despise them for their selfishness over the oil and their stupidity for allying with nationalists, if their economic case actually made sense it might be understandable but this will also go down as a monumental act of stupidity. The supposedly canny Scots will have lost that rep forever and will come to exemplify modern folly. <br /><br />Speedynoreply@blogger.com