tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post1812164914268292228..comments2024-03-29T09:14:53.583+00:00Comments on All That Is Solid ...: Sectarianism on the MarchPhilhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06298147857234479278noreply@blogger.comBlogger40125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-12685862122532641722009-11-30T21:53:09.470+00:002009-11-30T21:53:09.470+00:00http://thejuniusblog.wordpress.com/2009/11/30/resp...http://thejuniusblog.wordpress.com/2009/11/30/respect-conference-a-shift-to-the-right/Respect Conference - A shift to the right.http://thejuniusblog.wordpress.com/2009/11/30/respect-conference-a-shift-to-the-right/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-12554347936398170272009-11-24T14:57:38.887+00:002009-11-24T14:57:38.887+00:00I think he travels light ideologically. The figure...I think he travels light ideologically. The figure from the past he most reminds me of is Sukarno, who was also anti-imperialist but rather eclectic and hard to pin down.Mark Victorystoogenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-69797798987771831452009-11-24T14:03:05.108+00:002009-11-24T14:03:05.108+00:00Just on the challenge of transcending sectarianism...Just on the challenge of transcending <i>sectarianism on the march</i>, here's a fly in the ointment for those who keep their own counsel: <a href="http://leftclickblog.blogspot.com/2009/11/chavez-announces-fifth-international.html" rel="nofollow" rel="nofollow">Chavez' announces Fifth International plan at international left conference in Caracas</a>' I assume the CWI will pass on the invitation but Alan Woods will embrace the option. The Socialist Alliance also had representatives there.Dave Rileyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05319742357589026156noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-64026142702679102002009-11-21T05:51:10.906+00:002009-11-21T05:51:10.906+00:00I've had a few chats with leading SSP figures ...I've had a few chats with leading SSP figures and I can see that the Tommy Sheridan issue is such a complication -- it also gets caught up with the role London based parties played in the SSP -- in the split and thereafter.<br /><br />What concerns me, in terms of any possibility of resolution,aside from a few festering issues, is the partnership between Galloway and Sheridan during this by election campaign. Given what may be occurring within Respect and what has been Galloway's long term hostility to the SSP -- I'm seeing that maybe there is a lot more at stake here than one Big Brother graduate doing another a favour.<br /><br />For the moment the disputation may indeed be about each party signaling that it is indeed surviving AOK, but until such time as one or the other blinks and vacates the field in deference to the other, not much is going to happen in way of resolution. Jim's absolutely correct. And while in this poll Solidarity may have bested the SSP ( by utilizing the media pull and the name identity of Sheridan and Galloway -- no one has suggested that different politics was at stake nor that one party ran a tardy campaign) I don't see that as a long term formula for success if Solidarity has to always rely on the Sheridan card. <br /><br />Solidarity knows that it could not have pulled those same results if it stood some other candidate -- and Sheridan <i>had to prove</i> he was still a political player, still the anti poll tax hero, despite his court case challenges; or the fact that he lived the other side of town.Dave Rileyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05319742357589026156noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-11662361132003293132009-11-19T21:41:13.385+00:002009-11-19T21:41:13.385+00:00TT "Sorry, I know that's not the 'cor...TT "Sorry, I know that's not the 'correct' answer but it's the truth."<br /><br />I've got no dog in this race so the truth is the right answer as far as I'm concerned. <br /><br />I agree that a credible left is not simply the product of a lash up between left parties but I'd be more cautious about the idea that you've gained credibility with working class activists off the back of one guy saying nice things and a lost deposit.<br /><br />TT "And whilst I'm dealing with unfashionable truths would a by-election result where a socialist candidate beat the Lib-Dems be seen as negatively if it had occured in England? Or would comrades be happy that they'd beaten a mainstream party?"<br /><br />The result was a humiliation for the Lib Dems. For them coming sixth was a real blow. I can be happy about that. <br /><br />You still lost your deposit in a solidly working class constituency with the most well known socialist in Scotland as your candidate - beating a party that clearly does not exist in the constituency isn't going to impress anyone no matter which side of the border they are on.<br /><br />If it helps I don't think you were humiliated with this result, it just doesn't represent anything politically significant enough to bother the history books with.<br /><br />Anyway, all power to your elbow and I wish the left in Scotland, in all its various forms, all the best.Jim Jeppshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17410387006098326671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-13702854575082790562009-11-19T16:44:46.800+00:002009-11-19T16:44:46.800+00:00It's ludicrous, because it imagines that such ...It's ludicrous, because it imagines that such an action would have had any effect, and TT has already pointed out that Solidarity had already bent over backwards to get the SSP on board, which is still hoping the problem will go away with Sheridan's incarceration.skidmarxnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-28778816235612048202009-11-19T13:59:23.327+00:002009-11-19T13:59:23.327+00:00TT,
What I'm going to suggest might seem ludi...TT,<br /><br />What I'm going to suggest might seem ludicrous, and probably hasn't been heard in British politics the decades, if ever.<br /><br />Should there be a situation where potentially three Socialist candidates are standing and unity cannot be agreed, your party should stand aside and state: <br /><br /><i>"We could have fought this battle/the election but that would have been divisive and petty, so instead were standing aside and suggesting that voters pick the next Socialist candidate...."</i> or something similar<br /><br />It would be terribly difficult, politically tortuous, but also it would be highly principled.<br /><br />To pass up an opportunity, for the sake of your principles and the wider issue of Left unity, would have reflected well on your party.<br /><br />But we both know that will never happen, with the competing egos and petty politics that take precedence.<br /><br />Just a thought.ModernityBloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06354254639321208955noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-6603928847137615132009-11-19T11:06:19.157+00:002009-11-19T11:06:19.157+00:00Sorry... to answer one point...
"After this ...Sorry... to answer one point...<br /><br />"After this election do you think Solidarity standing has enhanced it's reputation and made future cooperation with it more likely"<br /><br />To be completely honest...<br /><br />with the SSP our reputation is unchanged and as said in previous post looks unlikely to change in Central Belt.<br /><br />with the trade unionists who were prepared to support (or in one case, stand as) a compromise candidate our standing has grown considerably and made future cooperation much more likely.<br /><br />The future of left-wing politics is more than just lashing together the current left groups so I'm happy to see the reputation boost with working class activists. It's also helped by the desirory vote the SSP and SLP got. If they'd refused the compromise idea and got a decent vote people could understand it but to stand and get nothing makes people wonder if they're mad.<br /><br />Sorry, I know that's not the 'correct' answer but it's the truth.<br /><br />And whilst I'm dealing with unfashionable truths would a by-election result where a socialist candidate beat the Lib-Dems be seen as negatively if it had occured in England? Or would comrades be happy that they'd beaten a mainstream party?<br /><br />I know, I know, we should have beat the BNP as well and almost did isn't good enough.TTnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-42136819054338483052009-11-19T10:48:35.019+00:002009-11-19T10:48:35.019+00:00Jim Jay said...
"Do you really think there wo...Jim Jay said...<br />"Do you really think there would have been no value in not standing this time. I'd have thought Sheridan actively campaigning on the doorstep for one of the other candidates would have been a very powerful trump card, far more powerful than another lost deposit..."<br /><br />That depends on the area. In some areas of Scotland SSP and Solidarity have informaly agreed local alliances not to stand against each other.<br /><br />The problem is that in areas like Glasgow and Edinburgh SSP are actively going around saying that Solidarity are finished and that once Sheridan is in jail everything will return to normal and SSP will be the party of choice for everyone on the left in Scotland. (see Colin Fox's comments at RMT crisis of working class representation for a mild version of this). If Solidarity do not stand this is seen as evidence that we're finished and used against us, especially in big profile elections like the recent by-election. So we stand, get the most left votes, and get called secterian.<br />As I see it we have a Mexican stand-off situation and it wont end unless both sides are prepared to stand down at the same time...TTnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-11085425676590959142009-11-19T10:41:44.163+00:002009-11-19T10:41:44.163+00:00Oh I agree! It's more than unlikely, but it...Oh I agree! It's more than unlikely, but it's worth pointing out that the fact someone didn't cooperate with you is not actually a good reason to stand against them (even if you'd get a higher vote!).<br /><br />As I say though it shouldn't all be laid at the door of Solidarity.<br /><br />It does seem a given to me that the SSP and Solidarity at least should let each other know where there top targets are and avoid spoiling operations... we'll see though.Jim Jeppshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17410387006098326671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-46141137985953877422009-11-19T10:24:47.139+00:002009-11-19T10:24:47.139+00:00Everyone knows how poisonous things are on the Sco...Everyone knows how poisonous things are on the Scottish left, so how do we overcome this state of play?<br /><br />I like Jim's idea but I think it would have been extremely unlikely in present circumstances. Perhaps the best way to avoid clashes like this in future is to get representative from each side in a room (preferably reps who were not at the forefront of the split) and divvy up constituencies in the next election. Surely that's not beyond the ken of Scottish comrades?Philhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06298147857234479278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-74443682240436094832009-11-19T09:46:39.241+00:002009-11-19T09:46:39.241+00:00TT: which course do you think advances the cause o...TT: which course do you think advances the cause of left unity further? <br /><br />After this election do you think Solidarity standing has enhanced it's reputation and made future cooperation with it more likely - or, if you had unilaterally not stood and supported one of the other candidates, would that have given you better bargaining power when it comes to the General Election next year because you'd demonstrated a willingness to stand aside here?<br /><br />I'm not singling you out for criticism here there is, of course, a collective responsibility, but you asked the question and I think it's one that's worth answering.<br /><br />Do you really think there would have been no value in not standing this time. I'd have thought Sheridan actively campaigning on the doorstep for one of the other candidates would have been a very powerful trump card, far more powerful than another lost deposit...Jim Jeppshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17410387006098326671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-84246513602860451462009-11-19T02:10:20.471+00:002009-11-19T02:10:20.471+00:00Hi,
I know it's usual to bash the Scottish lef...Hi,<br />I know it's usual to bash the Scottish left but in the recent by-election we did try at left unity. Solidarity held back from announcing their candidate because it was hoped that a compromise left candidate could be agreed based on the local trade unions. SLP said no (no surprise there) and SSP also said no as it looked too "No2EU"-ish for their liking (bigger surprise and a disapointment despite them also refusing to be involved in No2EU).<br /><br />What else should we have done? Said "alright, you don't want to discuss a shared candidate, you don't want to compromise and you don't want to accept anything that isn't just the usual SSP thing... well in that case then of course we wont stand a candidate and will unquestionably add our support to yours!"<br />I mean, come on!TTnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-2021262674388554462009-11-18T18:10:22.115+00:002009-11-18T18:10:22.115+00:00and over on irish indymedia it appears the swp lea...and over on irish indymedia it appears the swp leadership in dublin has expelled virtually everyone in belfastAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-71015387896425638812009-11-17T16:33:55.726+00:002009-11-17T16:33:55.726+00:00I'd agree that the routine inflation of figure...I'd agree that the routine inflation of figures is a bad thing,whether it's happening in this case I don't know. As to Phil BC's point about Counterfire, maybe if you keep asking we'll find out eventually.skidmarxnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-72847107603712034862009-11-16T21:05:53.061+00:002009-11-16T21:05:53.061+00:00Counterfire remains a total mystery to me. It was ...Counterfire remains a total mystery to me. It was completely innocuous. Was it because the comrades involved were engaging in activity independent of the CC? I guess we'll never know the real answer.Philhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06298147857234479278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-16443073628407398562009-11-16T20:43:02.319+00:002009-11-16T20:43:02.319+00:00"is part of a general crack-down on dissident...<i>"is part of a general crack-down on dissidents in the SWP is nonsense."</i><br /><br />If that is the case, then why was www.counterfire.org/ closed down?<br /><br />It was probably *the* best SWP web site.ModernityBloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06354254639321208955noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-90766210997918427422009-11-16T20:21:31.485+00:002009-11-16T20:21:31.485+00:00I'm sorry but the idea that SWP members are cu...I'm sorry but the idea that SWP members are currently 'in retreat from what we refer to as united front work' is utter bollocks, as is the idea that there is 'pessimism in the ranks'. SWP members where I live had spent a lot of time on UAF, are maintaining their activity in STW and are very upbeat about what we've achieved around the postal workers. We've also had the biggest, and youngest, rally for about 4 or 5 years (I'm not sure how many tbh). Fact is Alex, the more I read your comments the more I think good riddance. Nowt personal but that's the way it is.<br />Also, the idea that Alex's expulsion is part of a general crack-down on dissidents in the SWP is nonsense. the left faction has got 60 signed up supporters, its meetings are advertised in party notes, its literature in the internal bulletins. I don't know the details of Alex's expulsion but it's not about some imaginary crack-down.<br /><br />swp memberAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-75409443698450884432009-11-16T17:39:09.136+00:002009-11-16T17:39:09.136+00:00skidmarx
The claim about party growth by a local m...skidmarx<br />The claim about party growth by a local member is unequivocally nonsense. That is beyond doubt. I was really making 2 distinct points. Firstly, routine inflating of figures is part of the wider crisis in the party's internal culture. It is vital we tell the truth to ourselves in order to have an accurate assessment of any situation. Nobody should distort reality in order to score points. <br /><br />Secondly, I'm suggesting that growth in branch meeting attendances counts for little in itself. It is essential that members are directed into doing something useful. The most cautious and conservative tend to be those who stick to their party routine - meetings and sales - without being involved in anything else, lacking much of a connection with others.luna17https://www.blogger.com/profile/03754650933188634442noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-30690944460695880862009-11-16T16:52:02.725+00:002009-11-16T16:52:02.725+00:00Phil BC - not knowing the details of Lunagate I do...Phil BC - not knowing the details of Lunagate I don't know whether it is an example of sectarianism. Comrades expelled can appeal to conference,and if they've done enough to warrant expulsion, I don't see that saying "we do things a bit differently in the SP, so they must be wrong" is an unsectarian approach, but we all seem to have our own dictionary.<br />I'm not impressed by the comment above saying <i>A local SWP member has posted a comment on my blog, claiming the district has 'trebled' in size, branch meetings now have more than 20 people attending (far higher than before), and there are bigger paper sales. This is fantasy politics - the party is in fact stagnating at best - but even if it was true, so what?</i><br />denying the truth of the comment but with a fallback position in case it's correct. I'm not surprised his ex-comrades find him disingenuous.<br /><br />As to Respect, I told you them Klingons were nogoodniks.skidmarxnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-31750574554271677472009-11-16T14:23:02.774+00:002009-11-16T14:23:02.774+00:00Lun17,
A few thousands? Even with those 100,000s ...Lun17,<br /><br />A few thousands? Even with those 100,000s at anti-war demo exposed to the SWP?<br /><br />It seems rather low, when you think about it.<br /><br />I'll bet that the SWP were a few 1000s in 1992 and overall haven't much advanced their membership total in 20 years, 3-5 K max.<br /><br />If you keep doing something for 20 years and don't get much result then there are some serious questions that need asking.ModernityBloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06354254639321208955noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-26645137670832893032009-11-16T12:44:16.836+00:002009-11-16T12:44:16.836+00:00Broadly speaking, I think you're right to plac...Broadly speaking, I think you're right to place my own expulsion from the SWP in this context. There is currently a retreat from what we refer to as united front work in the SWP, with a far sharper focus on old-fashioned 'party building'. One of the problems is that building the party is meaningless if it has less influence in the wider world. Some humility is needed: an organisation of several thousand (maybe a thousand or so of whom are active politically) is small. It can only make an impact through uniting with others in broader formations. <br /><br />There is currently pessimism in the ranks about the party's capacity to do this, in particular over the recession. There's also paranoia about involvement in wider campaigns acting as a 'pull to the right', so much better to buckle down and just sell our papers. <br /><br />A local SWP member has posted a comment on my blog, claiming the district has 'trebled' in size, branch meetings now have more than 20 people attending (far higher than before), and there are bigger paper sales. This is fantasy politics - the party is in fact stagnating at best - but even if it was true, so what? Are any new people involved in anything other than turning up to SWP meetings and selling Socialist Worker? Of course not.luna17https://www.blogger.com/profile/03754650933188634442noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-80257523813672417572009-11-16T12:38:12.928+00:002009-11-16T12:38:12.928+00:00Anonymous, I have no problems with Respect standin...Anonymous, I have no problems with Respect standing under its own name - I didn't even realise that was under dispute. What I do have an issue with is a) Galloway's ill-informed condemnation of No2EU - clearly he hasn't a clue what he's going on about and b) his outright refusal to even countenance talks.<br /><br />Re: the Labour left, Louise, I didn't include them in the above post because the LRC and Compass aren't displaying the stupidities I criticise. And yes, I agree with you on Gerard and McDonnell especially - one of the daftest decisions a SP branch has ever made IMHO.Philhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06298147857234479278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-39694356456099334912009-11-16T12:33:29.439+00:002009-11-16T12:33:29.439+00:00The difference is Skidders is the SP has not expel...The difference is Skidders is the SP has not expelled anyone for yonks, and when it last happened they had every chance to circulate their views, explain themselves etc. It seems suspension and expulsion is the first weapon the SWP reaches for when someone "violates" party discipline.<br /><br />As for sectarianism, of course there are sectarians in the party as there are in any left group. But the key difference is if it does manifest it's pretty low-level stuff - the SP isn't in the habit of wrecking organisations and campaigns for sectarian advantage.Philhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06298147857234479278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4486641877026778105.post-3937772093870454372009-11-16T10:36:23.100+00:002009-11-16T10:36:23.100+00:00Interesting analysis Phil, but what of the Labour ...Interesting analysis Phil, but what of the Labour Left, it is left out of the equation?<br /><br />And I trust that groups outside the LP won't be standing against leftie anti-war Labour MPs like John McDonnell, Jeremy Corbyn, Katy Clark.... and so on? As the Socialist Party stood against John and also Neil Gerrard in Walthamstow, at the 2001 general election. <br /><br />Now that was ultra-left, sectarian and a huge mistake. I never understood why that happened. <br />Sorry if I sound grouchy (a close relative to harpy) but I found it unbelievable at the time even as a Socialist Alliance member.HarpyMarxhttp://harpymarx.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.com